Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby Philly » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:08 pm

Honestly the idea that people go to the doctor too much because they have insurance and want their money's worth just seems a bit ridiculous to me. The OP for example is about a guy who had to wait too long for a colonoscopy. Do we really believe the problem is that people are just lining up to get unnecessary colonoscopies for the hell of it? There are of course hypochondriacs who will go to the doctor every day with some new concern but that's a medical issue of its own.
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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby IndependentProfessor » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:33 pm

Philly wrote:Honestly the idea that people go to the doctor too much because they have insurance and want their money's worth just seems a bit ridiculous to me. The OP for example is about a guy who had to wait too long for a colonoscopy. Do we really believe the problem is that people are just lining up to get unnecessary colonoscopies for the hell of it? There are of course hypochondriacs who will go to the doctor every day with some new concern but that's a medical issue of its own.


Probably not colonoscopies. But lots of preventative medicine is abused. Mammograms, for example. A few years back, someone (important someone, not a random guy) advocated women getting one at age 30. And, people started doing it. Then, several organizations and medical professionals came out and said it's essentially a waste of time/money, because so few women have any issues at that age, and that 40 was a better age.
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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby Philly » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:40 pm

IndependentProfessor wrote:
Philly wrote:Honestly the idea that people go to the doctor too much because they have insurance and want their money's worth just seems a bit ridiculous to me. The OP for example is about a guy who had to wait too long for a colonoscopy. Do we really believe the problem is that people are just lining up to get unnecessary colonoscopies for the hell of it? There are of course hypochondriacs who will go to the doctor every day with some new concern but that's a medical issue of its own.


Probably not colonoscopies. But lots of preventative medicine is abused. Mammograms, for example. A few years back, someone (important someone, not a random guy) advocated women getting one at age 30. And, people started doing it. Then, several organizations and medical professionals came out and said it's essentially a waste of time/money, because so few women have any issues at that age, and that 40 was a better age.

Because someone who you claim is an authority on the matter said they should be getting mammograms at 30. The point is that most people don't enjoy going to the doctor for the hell of it. They go when there's a reason. And in a single payer system you wouldn't have people going to get whatever medical service they want for free. It's not gonna be free face lifts and nose jobs for everyone either. It would give everyone health insurance that covers the stuff that they actually need. If you want to get a colonoscopy twice a month, you're covered for the ones that you actually need, the rest comes out of pocket.
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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby Dylan » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:59 pm

Philly wrote:
IndependentProfessor wrote:
Philly wrote:Honestly the idea that people go to the doctor too much because they have insurance and want their money's worth just seems a bit ridiculous to me. The OP for example is about a guy who had to wait too long for a colonoscopy. Do we really believe the problem is that people are just lining up to get unnecessary colonoscopies for the hell of it? There are of course hypochondriacs who will go to the doctor every day with some new concern but that's a medical issue of its own.


Probably not colonoscopies. But lots of preventative medicine is abused. Mammograms, for example. A few years back, someone (important someone, not a random guy) advocated women getting one at age 30. And, people started doing it. Then, several organizations and medical professionals came out and said it's essentially a waste of time/money, because so few women have any issues at that age, and that 40 was a better age.

Because someone who you claim is an authority on the matter said they should be getting mammograms at 30. The point is that most people don't enjoy going to the doctor for the hell of it. They go when there's a reason. And in a single payer system you wouldn't have people going to get whatever medical service they want for free. It's not gonna be free face lifts and nose jobs for everyone either. It would give everyone health insurance that covers the stuff that they actually need. If you want to get a colonoscopy twice a month, you're covered for the ones that you actually need, the rest comes out of pocket.

Unnecessary tests and even treatments are a pretty big problem.
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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby IndependentProfessor » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:57 pm

Philly wrote:
IndependentProfessor wrote:
Philly wrote:Honestly the idea that people go to the doctor too much because they have insurance and want their money's worth just seems a bit ridiculous to me. The OP for example is about a guy who had to wait too long for a colonoscopy. Do we really believe the problem is that people are just lining up to get unnecessary colonoscopies for the hell of it? There are of course hypochondriacs who will go to the doctor every day with some new concern but that's a medical issue of its own.


Probably not colonoscopies. But lots of preventative medicine is abused. Mammograms, for example. A few years back, someone (important someone, not a random guy) advocated women getting one at age 30. And, people started doing it. Then, several organizations and medical professionals came out and said it's essentially a waste of time/money, because so few women have any issues at that age, and that 40 was a better age.

Because someone who you claim is an authority on the matter said they should be getting mammograms at 30. The point is that most people don't enjoy going to the doctor for the hell of it. They go when there's a reason. And in a single payer system you wouldn't have people going to get whatever medical service they want for free. It's not gonna be free face lifts and nose jobs for everyone either. It would give everyone health insurance that covers the stuff that they actually need. If you want to get a colonoscopy twice a month, you're covered for the ones that you actually need, the rest comes out of pocket.


Here it is. Susan G. Komen recommended them starting at age 30. http://ww5.komen.org/BreastCancer/Breas ... rRisk.html

Yet, the American Cancer Society says that they should start at age 45. http://www.cancer.org/cancer/breastcanc ... n-acs-recs

Not a single woman I've talked to has every "wanted" to get a mammogram. They're not fun. But, when SGK tells you to go get one, many women will do it, thinking that it provides them with some sort of advance warning or detection. Yet, according to the ACS, it affords little to no additional benefit, and just costs additional money.
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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby Philly » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:02 pm

That's my point exactly. It's not an issue of people overusing the system cause it's there. Whatever authoritative voices on medicine say is necessary is what people will do. How we pay for health coverage is an entirely different matter. Unless you think the solution is to just severely limit access to both necessary treatment as well as necessary.
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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby spacemonkey » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:29 pm

Everyone shoulg get total med exam every year. Doctors decide if treatment is needed, not ins beancounters. A trip to the clinic could happen anytime for those who panic if they get the sniffles. Don't kid yourselves, plenty do panic over the sniffles.
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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby Philly » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:30 pm

spacemonkey wrote:Everyone shoulg get total med exam every year. Doctors decide if treatment is needed, not ins beancounters. A trip to the clinic could happen anytime for those who panic if they get the sniffles. Don't kid yourselves, plenty do panic over the sniffles.

Those are called hypochondriacs, and if we got them on the treatment they need for their mental illness, they might stop clogging up the rest of the system for people who have serious physical illness.
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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby Gnostic » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:43 am

veterans veterans veterans. who gives a f. I'm tired, been tired all my life about how much we all owe those poor downtrodden needy veterans. blah bullshit. what makes them any more special or privileged than the average Joe who gets up every morning to work the daily grind to feed his kids? don't give me that horseshit about sacrifice...they sacrificed nothing...the only reasonmost of them signed up is because theyre either too lazy, shiftless or stupid to get a job in the real world, and far more get hurt or die in civilian jobs trying to support their families everyday than some GI Joe stirring pots of soup in a mess hall. and keep the "protecting my freedom" horseshit too...no military member has ever defended my so called freedom in this oligarchy during my lifetime. but if anything, if things ever really do hit the fan and people finally revolt as jefferson recommended, those idiotbots in uniform will be there to protect the status quo. instead of getting an honest job they wanted to suck at the teats of the military industrial machine, and shoot at people who pose no threat...so what. F veterans. give healthcare to everybody, especially everyday americans trying to survive without wearing a guvmintbot uniform.
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Re: Death is a reminder we suck at helping Veterans

Postby Winchester » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:06 am

Gnostic wrote:veterans veterans veterans. who gives a f. I'm tired, been tired all my life about how much we all owe those poor downtrodden needy veterans. blah bullshit. what makes them any more special or privileged than the average Joe who gets up every morning to work the daily grind to feed his kids? don't give me that horseshit about sacrifice...they sacrificed nothing...the only reasonmost of them signed up is because theyre either too lazy, shiftless or stupid to get a job in the real world, and far more get hurt or die in civilian jobs trying to support their families everyday than some GI Joe stirring pots of soup in a mess hall. and keep the "protecting my freedom" horseshit too...no military member has ever defended my so called freedom in this oligarchy during my lifetime. but if anything, if things ever really do hit the fan and people finally revolt as jefferson recommended, those idiotbots in uniform will be there to protect the status quo. instead of getting an honest job they wanted to suck at the teats of the military industrial machine, and shoot at people who pose no threat...so what. F veterans. give healthcare to everybody, especially everyday americans trying to survive without wearing a guvmintbot uniform.


I'm always been a bit disturbed by the fanaticism in honoring our military, especially when they are used questionably. I do wonder how much is genuine and how much is done just to get along because everyone else is doing it. The whole social machine seems to be in place to encourage youth to serve and unfortunately many of said youth don't truly understand the physical and emotional toll of being sent into war.

That being said I do have empathy for many of them. Many were/are pawns and have been used and have suffered ills because of said use. Even though we might not agree with what the military has done IMO we do owe it to the individuals who have been harmed to take care of their well being.
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