No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Current news and it's political impact.

No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby uebermann » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:56 pm

TL;DR - Prosecutor sabotages his own case on purpose so there wouldn't be an indictment. I think this reddit post sums it up very well:

In my opinion, the greatest breach of trust in this entire story is not the officer's shooting, but the system's response to it. For anyone who is unfamiliar with how the Grand Jury system works, let me explain:

A Grand Jury decides whether or not to indict someone for a crime and move on to the full jury trial with the prosecution vs. defense setup. The Grand Jury is supposed to be just a tool of the prosecution. The Grand Jury gets to see the prosecutor's evidence, look it over, and then make their determination of whether or not the defendant should go on to trial -- it's a method of preventing the court system's time from being wasted.

But in this case, the Prosecutor (Timothy McGinty) not only failed to do his job, he worked to actively sabotage the Grand Jury process. Remember, in this trial, the officer is the defendant and is being prosecuted by the state. However, rather than putting prosecutorial evidence before the Grand Jury like he was supposed to do, McGinty instead brought forth evidence against his own side to the Grand Jury. He hired and brought in numerous "experts" to give testimony in support of the defense, allowed the defendant to give statements on his own behalf, vigorously cross-examined the other witnesses who actually agreed with his side, etc.

It was a straight up betrayal of the Grand Jury process and his job as County Prosecutor.

From Cleveland.com

The Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office released three reports from national experts in police use of force that each found the boy's shooting was tragic but reasonable because the officers did not know Tamir's age or that the gun was fake. The experts also concluded that a reasonable officer responding to a report of a man with a gun would have considered Tamir's movements around his waist to pose a "threat" to their safety. They also concluded the use of deadly force would be legally appropriate.

The reports drew ire from lawyers representing Tamir's mother, Samaria Rice, in a wrongful death lawsuit against the officers and the city. The lawyers accused the experts of being too deferential to law enforcement. The attorneys eventually released reports from three of their own experts, two policing experts and a bio-kinetics expert, who concluded that the shooting was unreasonable and that Tamir's hands were actually in his jacket pockets when Loehmann fired.

The lawyers, community activists and a group of rabbis and pastors had called for months for McGinty to allow a special prosecutor to take over the investigation. They accused McGinty of harboring a bias in favor of law enforcement because his office works with police officers to build cases, and seeking expert reports that would exonerate the officers.


EDIT: More info from the letter sent to the District Attorney:
Last week, after taking the unusual step of asking the crime victim’s family to gather evidence to present to the grand jury (when that should be the prosecutor’s job), the prosecutors put the expert witnesses located by Tamir’s family on the stand. But, instead of allowing them to explain their findings to the grand jury, the prosecutors immediately launched into an improper cross-examination that included smirking and mocking the experts, pointing a toy gun in an expert’s face, and suggesting that the experts were not sufficiently concerned with preserving the police officers’ “liberty interest.” This treatment of the expert witnesses who Tamir’s family had to find after the prosecutor refused to do so made it clear that these prosecutors are not engaged in a search for truth or justice, but rather are conducting a charade process aimed at exonerating the officers.



Full Reddit post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/ ... in/cye3gn8

Its sad that such a thing can occur and there will likely be no repercussions for his actions on this matter. We have a huge failing in our justice system here that the DA usually works with police. We need an outside person brought in on cases like these that is NOT a DA or who's job it is to get an indictment for cases involving police.

The issue isn't that these officers should have been found guilty, the issue is that there was MORE than enough evidence to send this case to a trial. It didn't go to trial because the Prosecutor (DA in this case) did not do his job.
Image

These users thanked the author uebermann for the post (total 2):
gla22Philly
User avatar
uebermann
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5490
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:56 am
Location: Tyler, TX
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 164 times
Been thanked: 364 times
Political Leaning: Middle of the Road

Re: No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby Medius » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:11 pm

uebermann wrote:TL;DR - Prosecutor sabotages his own case on purpose so there wouldn't be an indictment. I think this reddit post sums it up very well:

In my opinion, the greatest breach of trust in this entire story is not the officer's shooting, but the system's response to it. For anyone who is unfamiliar with how the Grand Jury system works, let me explain:

A Grand Jury decides whether or not to indict someone for a crime and move on to the full jury trial with the prosecution vs. defense setup. The Grand Jury is supposed to be just a tool of the prosecution. The Grand Jury gets to see the prosecutor's evidence, look it over, and then make their determination of whether or not the defendant should go on to trial -- it's a method of preventing the court system's time from being wasted.

But in this case, the Prosecutor (Timothy McGinty) not only failed to do his job, he worked to actively sabotage the Grand Jury process. Remember, in this trial, the officer is the defendant and is being prosecuted by the state. However, rather than putting prosecutorial evidence before the Grand Jury like he was supposed to do, McGinty instead brought forth evidence against his own side to the Grand Jury. He hired and brought in numerous "experts" to give testimony in support of the defense, allowed the defendant to give statements on his own behalf, vigorously cross-examined the other witnesses who actually agreed with his side, etc.

It was a straight up betrayal of the Grand Jury process and his job as County Prosecutor.

From Cleveland.com

The Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office released three reports from national experts in police use of force that each found the boy's shooting was tragic but reasonable because the officers did not know Tamir's age or that the gun was fake. The experts also concluded that a reasonable officer responding to a report of a man with a gun would have considered Tamir's movements around his waist to pose a "threat" to their safety. They also concluded the use of deadly force would be legally appropriate.

The reports drew ire from lawyers representing Tamir's mother, Samaria Rice, in a wrongful death lawsuit against the officers and the city. The lawyers accused the experts of being too deferential to law enforcement. The attorneys eventually released reports from three of their own experts, two policing experts and a bio-kinetics expert, who concluded that the shooting was unreasonable and that Tamir's hands were actually in his jacket pockets when Loehmann fired.

The lawyers, community activists and a group of rabbis and pastors had called for months for McGinty to allow a special prosecutor to take over the investigation. They accused McGinty of harboring a bias in favor of law enforcement because his office works with police officers to build cases, and seeking expert reports that would exonerate the officers.


EDIT: More info from the letter sent to the District Attorney:
Last week, after taking the unusual step of asking the crime victim’s family to gather evidence to present to the grand jury (when that should be the prosecutor’s job), the prosecutors put the expert witnesses located by Tamir’s family on the stand. But, instead of allowing them to explain their findings to the grand jury, the prosecutors immediately launched into an improper cross-examination that included smirking and mocking the experts, pointing a toy gun in an expert’s face, and suggesting that the experts were not sufficiently concerned with preserving the police officers’ “liberty interest.” This treatment of the expert witnesses who Tamir’s family had to find after the prosecutor refused to do so made it clear that these prosecutors are not engaged in a search for truth or justice, but rather are conducting a charade process aimed at exonerating the officers.



Full Reddit post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/ ... in/cye3gn8

Its sad that such a thing can occur and there will likely be no repercussions for his actions on this matter. We have a huge failing in our justice system here that the DA usually works with police. We need an outside person brought in on cases like these that is NOT a DA or who's job it is to get an indictment for cases involving police.

The issue isn't that these officers should have been found guilty, the issue is that there was MORE than enough evidence to send this case to a trial. It didn't go to trial because the Prosecutor (DA in this case) did not do his job.


The trouble is that this seems to be the only avenue for justice. If you can't pin it on one person, nothing happens. There needs to be a path where the whole PD can be found responsible and sanctioned for their actions. You can't let this sort of behavior continue. The officer involved should be fired, if not criminally charged, and the PD needs to change the way they handle these situations. But there only appears to be the one avenue. Grand jury or no fault.

Oh and agreed on the OP, a non-governmental entity should be able to prosecute when the government is at fault.
User avatar
Medius
Governor
 
Posts: 4019
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:21 pm
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 123 times
Been thanked: 495 times
Political Leaning: Middle of the Road

Re: No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby Southern Dad » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:01 am

Every time a police officer discharged his weapon, should not result in him/her having to defend their life and freedom in a courtroom. Tamir Rice had an extremely realistic replica firearm, in a public park. When officers rolled up, the video shows him reaching for it. That isn't a good move. It isn't a murder, it is a tragedy.

These users thanked the author Southern Dad for the post:
spacemonkey
User avatar
Southern Dad
Senator
 
Posts: 1947
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:40 am
Location: The Peach State
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 113 times
Political Leaning: Conservative

Re: No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby micfranklin » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:05 am

The cops rolled up and shot him instantaneously. Not that a cop getting away even with video evidence surprises me anymore.
Asteroid Mike (my Youtube movie reviews channel)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqq4Gi ... ArjRrvauvw

My blog (also movie reviews)
http://asteroidmike.blogspot.com/
User avatar
micfranklin
Senator
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:55 am
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 43 times
Political Leaning: Libertarian

Re: No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby Dylan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:04 am

I dunno man. Kid was at a park with a bunch of other people, moved toward the officer and reached for what looked like a gun. Were I a cop I'd have shot him too.

The trouble is that this seems to be the only avenue for justice. If you can't pin it on one person, nothing happens. There needs to be a path where the whole PD can be found responsible and sanctioned for their actions. You can't let this sort of behavior continue. The officer involved should be fired, if not criminally charged, and the PD needs to change the way they handle these situations. But there only appears to be the one avenue. Grand jury or no fault.
Well there are civil suits. I think the PD in this case could be found liable for causing this kid's death pursuant to a civil suit by the family.

Oh and agreed on the OP, a non-governmental entity should be able to prosecute when the government is at fault.
Agreed.
Image
User avatar
Dylan
Vice President
 
Posts: 10741
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:34 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 1038 times
Been thanked: 916 times
Political Leaning: Middle of the Road

Re: No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby The Comrade » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:54 am

moved toward the officer? they pulled the car up like 4 feet away from him.
User avatar
The Comrade
Vice President
 
Posts: 18121
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Yugoslavia
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 1831 times
Political Leaning: Socialist

Re: No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby Medius » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:58 am

The Comrade wrote:moved toward the officer? they pulled the car up like 4 feet away from him.


Yep, the problem is the entire protocol for engagement. There was no imminent danger so they should have taken a more cautious approach to at least try to resolve the situation without lethal force.

These users thanked the author Medius for the post:
gla22
User avatar
Medius
Governor
 
Posts: 4019
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:21 pm
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 123 times
Been thanked: 495 times
Political Leaning: Middle of the Road

Re: No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby The Comrade » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:00 am

well it's been shown that racists don't view black children as children they view them as adults. add to that the belief that black males are inherently violent and it shouldn't be surprising why things like this happen.

so yeah, cops really need to learn what deescalation is again. going into every situation expecting a fight for your life is self fulfilling prophecy
User avatar
The Comrade
Vice President
 
Posts: 18121
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Yugoslavia
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 1831 times
Political Leaning: Socialist

Re: No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby Philly » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:00 am

It was practically a drive-by. I know Dylan hates gun owners but damn.
User avatar
Philly
Governor
 
Posts: 9416
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:36 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 949 times
Been thanked: 1116 times

Re: No indictment in Tamir Rice shooting

Postby Dylan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:15 am

The Comrade wrote:moved toward the officer? they pulled the car up like 4 feet away from him.

Check this out:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2449384

Excuse the link. And the horrible reporting.
Image
User avatar
Dylan
Vice President
 
Posts: 10741
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:34 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 1038 times
Been thanked: 916 times
Political Leaning: Middle of the Road

Next

Post a reply

Quote Selected
 

Return to Front Page News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests