Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby The Comrade » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:45 pm

Because taxation existed prior to income tax. Hell even in the US income tax existed prior to the war despite the common myth it didn't. This is different from legislstion that isn't very old, has little precedent, and is not mandatory for the state to function.


Different entirely. Next.
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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby exploited » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:51 pm

The Comrade wrote:Because taxation existed prior to income tax. Hell even in the US income tax existed prior to the war despite the common myth it didn't. This is different from legislstion that isn't very old, has little precedent, and is not mandatory for the state to function.


Different entirely. Next.


Income tax isn't mandatory for the state to function, as evidence I present the fact that income tax didn't exist in Canada until 1917, a half-century after Confederation.

What does the age of legislation have to do with it's utility?

What impact would having LESS precedent have on the desirability of being able to prevent people from buying guns simply by putting them on a list that has no oversight and won't even justify itself to any of the people impacted by it? In Canada, after all, there was no precedent for an income tax.

You're clearly overreaching here. It isn't different at all. The utility of income tax was high, therefore it didn't get repealed. The utility of being able to ban anyone from getting a gun with no recourse, therefore bypassing Constitutional protections, is also high. It is therefore perfectly reasonable to expect that this will present very real problems abolishing these lists.

For once I'm not simply trolling when I tell you that you aren't making much sense. It is irrefutable that making something more useful makes it harder to do away with. It's basically axiomatic, especially when it comes to government policy.
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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby Philly » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:56 pm

So Comrade's argument is that even though it can be cited over and over that things which are given a utility and increase the power of government are harder to get rid of, the case of making a massive, unexplained and unaccountable list of people and stripping them of their 2nd amendment rights without due process just hasn't been done before, and therefore is different, and therefore there's not evidence that this would conform to any example you could cite.
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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby The Comrade » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:31 pm

Nice straw man Phillip.


I'll respond properly when I'm not on my phone but ex's Socratic method is already evidence he's on the defensive.
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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby Philly » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:35 pm

Well if you'll reject any similar but not quite the same situation as "different", and this exact scenario hasn't been done before, then demanding evidence is just a bullshit way of saying "But what if this somehow goes differently than how it observably always goes?"
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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby exploited » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:43 pm

The Comrade wrote:Nice straw man Phillip.


I'll respond properly when I'm not on my phone but ex's Socratic method is already evidence he's on the defensive.


The Socratic method is annoying, to be sure, but after a decade of debating with you, one thing I've learned is that it is absolutely necessary to get you to say something definitive. Because if that doesn't happen, you WILL deny any logical inference based upon your statements, you will twist and turn, and you're pretty good at it. So it was unfortunately necessary to get you to say something dumb so Philly and I could hammer you to the wall.

Sorry bro <3
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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby The Comrade » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:07 am

exploited wrote:
Income tax isn't mandatory for the state to function, as evidence I present the fact that income tax didn't exist in Canada until 1917, a half-century after Confederation.


income tax just replaced other forms of taxation. the same thing happened in the US, yo.

exploited wrote:What does the age of legislation have to do with it's utility?


the longer something is on the books the harder it is to remove.

exploited wrote:What impact would having LESS precedent have on the desirability of being able to prevent people from buying guns simply by putting them on a list that has no oversight and won't even justify itself to any of the people impacted by it? In Canada, after all, there was no precedent for an income tax.


no precedent doesn't ensconce legislation in a framework of sacredness. see: constitution

exploited wrote:You're clearly overreaching here. It isn't different at all. The utility of income tax was high, therefore it didn't get repealed. The utility of being able to ban anyone from getting a gun with no recourse, therefore bypassing Constitutional protections, is also high. It is therefore perfectly reasonable to expect that this will present very real problems abolishing these lists.


except america, the only north american country that matters, passed a constitutional amendment for income tax. without the second being repealed it's not difficult at all to strike down what i suggested.

exploited wrote:For once I'm not simply trolling when I tell you that you aren't making much sense. It is irrefutable that making something more useful makes it harder to do away with. It's basically axiomatic, especially when it comes to government policy.


the government cuts shit that is useful all the time. even stuff that isn't wrapped up in ideological posturing.
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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby spacemonkey » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:00 pm

Your chance of being in a situation like that is very slim but not totally impossible. The victims who are not killed outright also become the first responders. Ever give any thought on what kind of first responder you may be if necessary? I bet all the sheep waiting in line to be slaughtered Probably wished they had a gun.
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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby eynon81 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:06 am

This is interesting:
One of the assailants, Tashfeen Malik, pledged allegiance to an Islamic State leader in a Facebook posting, officials said. Her husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, had contact with people from at least two terrorist organizations overseas, including the Al Qaeda-affiliated Nusra Front in Syria, a federal law enforcement official said.


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

our gubment got mad at the Russians for bombing those guys, their handling of Syria has been so beyond terrible.


*not the Russians I mean.
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Re: Another mass shooting; at disabilities center in CA

Postby The Comrade » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:55 pm

we didn't get mad at them for bombing nusra
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