Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby Homer » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:18 am

Southern Dad wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:
Dylan wrote:why? unions have done a lot of good. and a lot of bad. but all things in moderation good sir.

I was in a union, Teamsters. Getting a pension now. That's true, unions can be good or bad. Both sides need a voice. The secret is both voices need to be reasonable.


At my first job back in 1983, I was union. I worked for Coca Cola in Akron, OH. We were Teamsters Union. I made $17 per hour to watch bottles go by. The minimum wage was $3.25 per hour. I thought the union was the best thing since sliced bread.


And Coca-Cola still made huge profits despite you being paid $17 per hour, I guess that's one of the conservative anti-pay rise arguments debunked then!
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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby The Comrade » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:38 am

i enjoy the conservative arguments related to unions.

"every worker should negotiate with their boss for better pay and conditions if they really want them!"

oh cool. maybe we if we organized in to a group to better lobby our position and centralize our goals, we'd stand a better chance

"that is absolutely ridiculous and unamerican!!! you have no right to ask any thing of your employer!!! it is a privilege to have a job!!! you should be thankful!!!!"


never ceases to amaze me how willing people are to f**k themselves in their own ass.
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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby Southern Dad » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:49 am

Homer wrote:And Coca-Cola still made huge profits despite you being paid $17 per hour, I guess that's one of the conservative anti-pay rise arguments debunked then!


However, that bottling plant that I worked at is now a distribution facility. The bottling line on closed down. All those highly paid Teamsters laid off and onto new jobs. It was good while it lasted.
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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby Professor » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:02 am

Dylan wrote:why? unions have done a lot of good. and a lot of bad. but all things in moderation good sir.


They were great many moons ago. And, they can still do some good. But, my opinion is more bad than good, nowadays.

Why? Because, way back when, it was very hard to find another job if you didn't like the factory where you worked. It was hard to move from place to place. It was impossible to find out if another company was hiring. There was no information on comparable salaries. Private retirement accounts were almost unheard of by the layman. Basically, you had to stay where you were and hope that your employer treated you well. And, when they didn't, you formed a union. Those were VERY good things.

But, nowadays, the tables have turned. You can go to your boss (on your own) and say, "You are underpaying me. My average peer, in this market and at this job, makes 15% more than me. Furthermore, these 3 companies that are competitors of yours are hiring for my position and offering more money. I have interviewed with all of them and received an offer from one. If you refuse to raise my pay (or lower my hours, or match my 401k, or whatever), then I will leave and work elsewhere." There's no way you could have done that back then.

Consider the rights that an employee has these days - rights that are guaranteed by law (laws pushed by unions, back then). Workers' comp. OSHA. Sexual harassment. Civil rights concerning employment. FMLA. There are many others, but those are off the top of my head. Unions fought for those things in order to empower employees against the corporations. But, now that we have them, we no longer need the unions.
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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby Professor » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:04 am

spacemonkey wrote:
Dylan wrote:why? unions have done a lot of good. and a lot of bad. but all things in moderation good sir.

I was in a union, Teamsters. Getting a pension now. That's true, unions can be good or bad. Both sides need a voice. The secret is both voices need to be reasonable.


Pensions. That's one of the things I think needs to go away. Obviously, if you were promised one, you should receive it.

But, why should my employer have to pay me when I'm not working for them?
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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby exploited » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:35 am

Professor wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:
Dylan wrote:why? unions have done a lot of good. and a lot of bad. but all things in moderation good sir.

I was in a union, Teamsters. Getting a pension now. That's true, unions can be good or bad. Both sides need a voice. The secret is both voices need to be reasonable.


Pensions. That's one of the things I think needs to go away. Obviously, if you were promised one, you should receive it.

But, why should my employer have to pay me when I'm not working for them?


Assuming wages are high enough to finance retirement without being subsidized by government, sure, pensions can go.
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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby Professor » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:40 am

exploited wrote:
Professor wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:
Dylan wrote:why? unions have done a lot of good. and a lot of bad. but all things in moderation good sir.

I was in a union, Teamsters. Getting a pension now. That's true, unions can be good or bad. Both sides need a voice. The secret is both voices need to be reasonable.


Pensions. That's one of the things I think needs to go away. Obviously, if you were promised one, you should receive it.

But, why should my employer have to pay me when I'm not working for them?


Assuming wages are high enough to finance retirement without being subsidized by government, sure, pensions can go.


Totally agree.
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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby Professor » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:44 am

This brings up yet another missed opportunity with health care reform. Why didn't they use this opportunity to finally divorce health insurance from employers? Establish the exchanges, make certain pools within the exchanges that you can elect to become members of (thereby capitalizing on group discounts) and have the only employer involvement be directing dollars towards your premiums.

It's asinine that I have only 1 plan to choose from, because that's the one that my employer chose, and if I refuse and go to the exchange, then a) I'm faced with higher prices because bulk purchasing isn't at the level of employer purchasing, and b) I do not get any employer or Federal subsidy because I turned down a qualifying plan.
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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby The Comrade » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:17 am

Professor wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:
Dylan wrote:why? unions have done a lot of good. and a lot of bad. but all things in moderation good sir.

I was in a union, Teamsters. Getting a pension now. That's true, unions can be good or bad. Both sides need a voice. The secret is both voices need to be reasonable.


Pensions. That's one of the things I think needs to go away. Obviously, if you were promised one, you should receive it.

But, why should my employer have to pay me when I'm not working for them?



because we tried this and we got sick of old people dying in the streets.


it's not like at the turn of the century everyone though "wouldn't it be hilarious if we f**k over employers for no reason?"
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Re: Walmart Closes 5 Stores - Putting 2200 Out of Work

Postby spacemonkey » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:37 am

Professor wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:
Dylan wrote:why? unions have done a lot of good. and a lot of bad. but all things in moderation good sir.

I was in a union, Teamsters. Getting a pension now. That's true, unions can be good or bad. Both sides need a voice. The secret is both voices need to be reasonable.


Pensions. That's one of the things I think needs to go away. Obviously, if you were promised one, you should receive it.

But, why should my employer have to pay me when I'm not working for them?

My pension comes from the Teamsters union, not the company. It seems the 401k are replacing pensions. Btw, my pension is very modest next to the golden parachutes of Congress,etc.
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