US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Current news and it's political impact.

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Saz » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:00 pm

Kane wrote:
Saz wrote:
Tragic KingdomII wrote:
I agree, which is why Tikrit likely strengthened America's hand in the negotiations. The Shia militias backed by Iran really really wanted to prove that they could defeat ISIS on their own, to the point where a good chunk of them have abandoned the battle all together in protest.

3 Shiite Militias Quit Iraqi Siege of ISIS Over U.S. Air Role - new york times


The point is Iran doesn't give two shits about Sunni Iraq. I all but guarantee you we are getting punked again, and this is a calculated effort by Iran to get the US to step up their involvement so Iran doesn't have to.


Step up air strikes? We aren't going to put troops on the ground. If they want to up our involvement this is basically the limit. Iran is already involved to a degree greater than the US anyways. Iraq is essentially a host state to Iran now anyways.

What would we do further to help the Iranian's avoid the need to support it further?


Take the propaganda hit. Closer and more frequently we drop bombs the more effective airstrikes are, and the more civilians that will catch fire. But hey, that's the evil americans dropping the bombs, blame them for it.

It's become a game where we each see why wants to defeat ISIS more. The logical answer is obviously Iran but this is the middle east so you can bet on us getting punked, wasting a ton of money on airstrikes, and then catching all the shit for it.
Ceterum autem censeo Dylan esse delendam
User avatar
Saz
Governor
 
Posts: 8000
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:37 am
Location: Airstrip One
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1038 times
Been thanked: 860 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Saz » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:00 pm

Kane wrote:
Saz wrote:
Kane wrote:
Saz wrote:
Kane wrote:
It's easy to lament it but our position in the region is changing and we appear precarious simply because there's potentially a large shift going on. We are attempting to balance something that we can't in an effort to extend out our own goals.


Which is why it's a retarded, unsustainable and circular policy.


It may appear so in the present but if there's a payoff...it will be glorious.


There can be no f**k payoff because we keep playing both sides of the fence RE: Iran/Saudi/Israel. We put our thumb on the scale in favor of one of them only to put another thumb on the other side of the scale. In the end the scale hasn't moved and we have two f**k thumbs stuck in the shittiest region of the world. Then we will look around bewildered when it inevitably blows up in or face again. Why are we even f**k around there like this. It's like we are determined to involve ourselves in as ineffective a manner as possible until one of our pilots gets shot down or they drag some spec ops though the street and behead them. Our policy is f**k stupid, it's like a grown adult inserting themselves into a high school feud and then wondering why everyone hates them and considers them stupid.


Meh. I'm cautiously optimistic. blind and naive


lets call a spade a spade bro
Ceterum autem censeo Dylan esse delendam
User avatar
Saz
Governor
 
Posts: 8000
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:37 am
Location: Airstrip One
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1038 times
Been thanked: 860 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Kane » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:21 pm

Sigh. Back to ignore I see.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 6505
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 239 times
Been thanked: 460 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Tragic KingdomII » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:36 pm

Kane wrote:
Tragic KingdomII wrote:
Kane wrote:It's easy to lament it but our position in the region is changing and we appear precarious simply because there's potentially a large shift going on. We are attempting to balance something that we can't in an effort to extend out our own goals.
What large shift would that be? Iran is attempting to exert its influence across the ME but it may have overreached. The KSA coalition includes Egypt, Jordan, Sudan, Pakistan and the rest of the Gulf states. If Iran really thought that Sunnis would sit there and watch as a shia Iran backed militia took over Yemen, it was badly mistaken. Heck, KSA invaded Bahrain because of anti government protestors that got a little rowdy.


IMO, the west is making a pivot towards Iran but in the process is trying to save face by playing both sides in the interim.


Eh, I don't see it. They may have a common enemy but I don't see the west abandoning the Gulf for Iran.
Tragic KingdomII
Mayor
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:50 am
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Political Leaning: Slightly Liberal

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Kane » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:45 pm

Tragic KingdomII wrote:
Kane wrote:
Tragic KingdomII wrote:
Kane wrote:It's easy to lament it but our position in the region is changing and we appear precarious simply because there's potentially a large shift going on. We are attempting to balance something that we can't in an effort to extend out our own goals.
What large shift would that be? Iran is attempting to exert its influence across the ME but it may have overreached. The KSA coalition includes Egypt, Jordan, Sudan, Pakistan and the rest of the Gulf states. If Iran really thought that Sunnis would sit there and watch as a shia Iran backed militia took over Yemen, it was badly mistaken. Heck, KSA invaded Bahrain because of anti government protestors that got a little rowdy.


IMO, the west is making a pivot towards Iran but in the process is trying to save face by playing both sides in the interim.


Eh, I don't see it. They may have a common enemy but I don't see the west abandoning the Gulf for Iran.


It's not abandonment, it's a shift in favoritism. The Sunni groups are nowhere near as cohesive a unit as the Shiite. On top of this there are potential short/medium term benefits from more oil on the market, a meaningful participant in Israeli hostilities by proxy, and a population far more in tune with Western culture and ideals than the ideologies being fostered in Sunni states.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 6505
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 239 times
Been thanked: 460 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Tragic KingdomII » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:31 pm

Kane wrote:
Tragic KingdomII wrote:
Kane wrote:
Tragic KingdomII wrote:
Kane wrote:It's easy to lament it but our position in the region is changing and we appear precarious simply because there's potentially a large shift going on. We are attempting to balance something that we can't in an effort to extend out our own goals.
What large shift would that be? Iran is attempting to exert its influence across the ME but it may have overreached. The KSA coalition includes Egypt, Jordan, Sudan, Pakistan and the rest of the Gulf states. If Iran really thought that Sunnis would sit there and watch as a shia Iran backed militia took over Yemen, it was badly mistaken. Heck, KSA invaded Bahrain because of anti government protestors that got a little rowdy.


IMO, the west is making a pivot towards Iran but in the process is trying to save face by playing both sides in the interim.


Eh, I don't see it. They may have a common enemy but I don't see the west abandoning the Gulf for Iran.


It's not abandonment, it's a shift in favoritism. The Sunni groups are nowhere near as cohesive a unit as the Shiite. On top of this there are potential short/medium term benefits from more oil on the market, a meaningful participant in Israeli hostilities by proxy, and a population far more in tune with Western culture and ideals than the ideologies being fostered in Sunni states.


Far more in tune with western culture? I completely disagree. Iran is an Islamic Republic, and they wreck havoc in the region. The other major shia power bases are Hezbollah in Lebanon, Southern and Eastern Iraq, and Assad in Syria. How are any of these actors at in tune with western culture and ideals? You can make a case for Assad being secular and all, but he's no more secular than sunni Sisi, sunni Erdogan, and the sunni Kurds. You have to also remember that the vast majority of muslims in the ME are sunni, and although they aren't as united as the shias, the irony is if there is anything that will and does unite them, it's ironically their disdain for Iran and its proxies. KSA is leading a coalition against a shia militia in Yemen that includes all of the Gulf states, Jordan, Egypt, Sundan, Pakistan....they're using bases in Somalia to launch raids, and Turkey is 100% behind the effort. If you're going to alienate sunnis in the ME, you certainly don't do it by favoring the shias.

These users thanked the author Tragic KingdomII for the post:
Saz
Tragic KingdomII
Mayor
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:50 am
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Political Leaning: Slightly Liberal

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Thatcher » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:45 pm

The average Iranian is probably more in tune with Western Culture than Sunnis. Sunni terrorism is more overtly bat shit crazy extreme than say, Hezbollah. Iran does it on the down low.

These users thanked the author Thatcher for the post:
Saz
Thatcher
Mayor
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:37 am
Location: Pangea
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Tragic KingdomII » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:56 am

Thatcher wrote:The average Iranian is probably more in tune with Western Culture than Sunnis. Sunni terrorism is more overtly bat shit crazy extreme than say, Hezbollah. Iran does it on the down low.


That's a ridiculous statement. There are quite a number of sunni led democracies. Indonesia and Turkey to name a couple. Nearly 30% of sunni Muslims live in those two countries. The Kurds who by all account are the most sane actors in the current Iraq/Syria conflict are also predominately Sunni. There are absolutely no shia led democracies.

I think people need to realize that Middle Easterns makeup no more than 25% of the globe's muslim population....blanket statements about Islam that ignore 75% of the muslim world are not very informed and oftentimes entirely false.
Tragic KingdomII
Mayor
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:50 am
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Political Leaning: Slightly Liberal

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Saz » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:03 am

Tragic KingdomII wrote:
Thatcher wrote:The average Iranian is probably more in tune with Western Culture than Sunnis. Sunni terrorism is more overtly bat shit crazy extreme than say, Hezbollah. Iran does it on the down low.


That's a ridiculous statement. There are quite a number of sunni led democracies. Indonesia and Turkey to name a couple. Nearly 30% of sunni Muslims live in those two countries. The Kurds who by all account are the most sane actors in the current Iraq/Syria conflict are also predominately Sunni. There are absolutely no shia led democracies.

I think people need to realize that Middle Easterns makeup no more than 25% of the globe's muslim population....blanket statements about Islam that ignore 75% of the muslim world are not very informed and oftentimes entirely false.


This doesn't really address the point though. Shia terrorism is almost always explicitly political and done only in the ME. Sunni terrorism is directed at the west, is overtly religious, and targets civilians much more frequently. Your population numbers are nonsense as well. Outside of the indian subcontinent and Indonesia, almost all of the worlds muslims are in the middle east. And it's without a doubt a vast vast majority of the money, theology and political clout in the muslim world comes from the middle east. Islam, especially in a political context, is completely driven by middle easterners and events in the middle east. To pretend otherwise, simply because there happen to be 150 million politically irrelevant poor muslims in India, is disingenuous.
Ceterum autem censeo Dylan esse delendam
User avatar
Saz
Governor
 
Posts: 8000
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:37 am
Location: Airstrip One
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1038 times
Been thanked: 860 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: US launches aistrikes in Tirkrit,Gulf states bomb Yemen

Postby Tragic KingdomII » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:44 pm

Saz wrote:
Tragic KingdomII wrote:
Thatcher wrote:The average Iranian is probably more in tune with Western Culture than Sunnis. Sunni terrorism is more overtly bat shit crazy extreme than say, Hezbollah. Iran does it on the down low.


That's a ridiculous statement. There are quite a number of sunni led democracies. Indonesia and Turkey to name a couple. Nearly 30% of sunni Muslims live in those two countries. The Kurds who by all account are the most sane actors in the current Iraq/Syria conflict are also predominately Sunni. There are absolutely no shia led democracies.

I think people need to realize that Middle Easterns makeup no more than 25% of the globe's muslim population....blanket statements about Islam that ignore 75% of the muslim world are not very informed and oftentimes entirely false.


This doesn't really address the point though. Shia terrorism is almost always explicitly political and done only in the ME. Sunni terrorism is directed at the west, is overtly religious, and targets civilians much more frequently. Your population numbers are nonsense as well. Outside of the indian subcontinent and Indonesia, almost all of the worlds muslims are in the middle east. And it's without a doubt a vast vast majority of the money, theology and political clout in the muslim world comes from the middle east. Islam, especially in a political context, is completely driven by middle easterners and events in the middle east. To pretend otherwise, simply because there happen to be 150 million politically irrelevant poor muslims in India, is disingenuous.


What are you talking about? There are 1.6 billion Muslims world wide, only 400 million live in the middle east. So aside from the 75% of Muslims who aren't in the middle east, almost all of the world's muslims are in the middle east? wtf...

I don't disagree about political influence and theology. Islam after all was born in the middle east. That doesn't mean you can ignore the roughly 60%+ of Muslims who live in South & South East Asia.

I guess you can make an argument that Shia Middle Easterns are more in tune with western culture than Sunni Middle Easterns, although I would still disagree with that statement.
Tragic KingdomII
Mayor
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:50 am
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Political Leaning: Slightly Liberal

PreviousNext

Post a reply

Quote Selected
 

Return to Front Page News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest