Voting Might Need to be Mandatory

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Re: Voting Might Need to be Mandatory

Postby Medius » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:05 pm

exploited wrote:Nah, the point is that democracy is perfectly compatible with force, and always has been.


I thought it to be more of the "forcing people to vote" not force itself. I'd bet, if you forced people to vote and I was able to put up for that vote "don't force people to vote", it would be the shortest run of mandatory voting in history. So from that perspective, yeah it would probably be antithetical to democracy.

Antithetical to freedom would be a better assertion though, I agree. There is some force that certainly is necessary in any government.
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Re: Voting Might Need to be Mandatory

Postby exploited » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:24 pm

Medius wrote:
exploited wrote:Nah, the point is that democracy is perfectly compatible with force, and always has been.


I thought it to be more of the "forcing people to vote" not force itself. I'd bet, if you forced people to vote and I was able to put up for that vote "don't force people to vote", it would be the shortest run of mandatory voting in history. So from that perspective, yeah it would probably be antithetical to democracy.

Antithetical to freedom would be a better assertion though, I agree. There is some force that certainly is necessary in any government.


I agree that any such law is unlikely to stand, but as I said to Spider, I don't view it as particularly onerous or out of line. The draft, absolutely vital in past years, was a far worse imposition, and remains legal to this day. And I'm sure I could think of more examples, but really my point is that it isn't antithetical to democracy.

It might offend the idea of freedom, but if reasonably legislated and enforced, would have very little practical impact on your day to day life or liberties. It is a pretty minor requirement, like forcing people to fill out a census, and it wouldn't result in serious financial or judicial penalties. So I don't think its antithetical to freedom either - maybe mildly opposed, but that's the extent of it.
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Re: Voting Might Need to be Mandatory

Postby Medius » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:36 pm

exploited wrote:I agree that any such law is unlikely to stand, but as I said to Spider, I don't view it as particularly onerous or out of line. The draft, absolutely vital in past years, was a far worse imposition, and remains legal to this day. And I'm sure I could think of more examples, but really my point is that it isn't antithetical to democracy.

It might offend the idea of freedom, but if reasonably legislated and enforced, would have very little practical impact on your day to day life or liberties. It is a pretty minor requirement, like forcing people to fill out a census, and it wouldn't result in serious financial or judicial penalties. So I don't think its antithetical to freedom either - maybe mildly opposed, but that's the extent of it.


It's a bit more onerous than you've put out there with the current way it works. Sure, I get time off of work, but can still be a pain for people with a long commute to go to work, come back, then go back to work. For those without transportation, even registering to vote can be difficult. I think though, we could could change the system to be much easier. And that's sort of the point I've been trying to make. That, before we start manhandling the voters into showing up, we maybe take a look at how to make it more accessible to people. You know, maybe try the freedom angle before force?

As for the draft, I actually find it entirely unethical except where applied to defending our country from invasion. Forcibly sending our citizens overseas to die for other countries is, to put it mildly, evil.
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Re: Voting Might Need to be Mandatory

Postby exploited » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:46 pm

I'm with you on the draft. I think that is a pretty good example of something that is antithetical to freedom. But even so, you qualify it by saying its fine when the country is being invaded. I actually disagree with you there - it is always wrong to force someone to fight, regardless of circumstances. Their life is not the governments to decide - it's far too important.

As for non-coercive methods, I'm all ears. I want to see huge investments made in adapting internet technology to secure voting. And I'd much prefer something that wasn't coercive. However I do think that this issue of non-participation needs to be addressed sooner than later, and mandatory voting really isn't all that hard to implement (in Canada anyways - I personally think it would be impossible in the US).
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Re: Voting Might Need to be Mandatory

Postby Medius » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:51 pm

exploited wrote:I'm with you on the draft. I think that is a pretty good example of something that is antithetical to freedom. But even so, you qualify it by saying its fine when the country is being invaded. I actually disagree with you there - it is always wrong to force someone to fight, regardless of circumstances. Their life is not the governments to decide - it's far too important.

As for non-coercive methods, I'm all ears. I want to see huge investments made in adapting internet technology to secure voting. And I'd much prefer something that wasn't coercive. However I do think that this issue of non-participation needs to be addressed sooner than later, and mandatory voting really isn't all that hard to implement (in Canada anyways - I personally think it would be impossible in the US).


Agreed. And on the draft, the idea behind "calling forth the militia" during invasion is that everyone will likely be fighting no matter their preference and it is best for everyone involved if that fighting is organized and coordinated.
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Re: Voting Might Need to be Mandatory

Postby Libertarian602 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:07 pm

Won't happen.
“Liberty has not only enemies which it conquers, but perfidious friends, who rob the fruits of its victories: Absolute democracy, socialism.”
-Lord Acton
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