malaysian plane down in ukraine

[Kane]

[Kane]

Also, sorry bro but that documentary has Niall Ferguson in it. He's on my shit list.

[John Galt]

[John Galt]

ukraine claims it destroyed part of a russian convoy of armor in its territory

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-1 ... ussia.html

[The Dharma Bum]

what exactly is the US interest in Ukraine? I don't see that it's worth getting involved in.

[exploited]

[Saz]

[Spider]

Germany is the EU, for all intents and purposes.

But I don't really care who goes, (to Ukraine, not Russia) as long as its not us, and as long as it shocks Europe out of its addled complacency. They would rather watch Tsar Vladimir jerk off to footage of Ukraine burning than have their gas bills go up.

Their backyard, their problem. We don't have any significant gain or loss from this. If they're fine with it, they should continue to sing songs in their heads and pretend its not happening.

[The Dharma Bum]

[exploited]

I don't know if it is aggression so much as a lack of understanding of the Russian perspective. Westerners will point out that belonging to these organizations is Ukraine's choice, that there is no reason for Russia to fear it because it is merely a trade union and a collective defense treaty. Which makes sense until you put it into historical context: NATO lied about not expanding towards Russia, and the EU is led by a country that has killed tens of millions of Russians in two of the largest conflicts ever seen. And this is ignoring the Cold War and all the distrust we've had.

Westerners are very forgiving and have a giant memory hole. We don't focus on the past, whereas other cultures can hold grudges for centuries. The average Westerner doesn't distrust Germany, they don't hold the memories of Pearl Harbor (Japan being a trusted ally who we know won't attack the West again), etc.