Businesses have religious liberty....

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Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby eynon81 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:05 am

The Supreme Court ruled in a 5 to 4 decision on Monday that requiring family-owned corporations to pay for insurance coverage for contraception violated a federal law protecting religious freedom.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/us/su ... .html?_r=0

not many details on the decision itself but I tend to think that's correct, even if I was expecting a different result.
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Re: Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby Philly » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:23 am

These guys previously provided contraception and only had religious issues after there was a mandate to give it to all full time employees. Not that such a discrepancy settles the religious liberty question but I wouldn't think hobby lobby's religious objections could be considered sincere.
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Re: Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby eynon81 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:36 am

Philly2 wrote:These guys previously provided contraception and only had religious issues after there was a mandate to give it to all full time employees. Not that such a discrepancy settles the religious liberty question but I wouldn't think hobby lobby's religious objections could be considered sincere.



yeah....I found that argument very compelling, personally I would have probably split the baby (heh) made Hobby Lobby do it but the Amish wood-guys not. The decision in 95 pages long, we need one of the unemployed members of the forum to read it for us.
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Re: Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby John Galt » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:43 am

Philly2 wrote:These guys previously provided contraception and only had religious issues after there was a mandate to give it to all full time employees. Not that such a discrepancy settles the religious liberty question but I wouldn't think hobby lobby's religious objections could be considered sincere.


it seemed to be that the owners saw this obamacare stuff and thought "my heavens forcing us to pay for contraceptives that kill unborn babies? get debrah on the phone. debbie? yeah make sure that whatever new plan we have to get for this new obamacare thing, make sure it doesn't have baby killers paid for. come again? what. wait what. are you. you're fired."

"what happened frank?"

"i had to fire debbie."

"but why?"

"we've been killing babies for years and she never told us"

next thing you know, lawsuit. and they won
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Re: Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby eynon81 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:43 am

here we go, one of my ole' law profs summed it up:
Closely held corporations cannot be required to provide contraception coverage to their employees; the Religious Freedom Restoration Act applies to closely held corporations and the government failed to show the mandate is the least restrictive means of advancing its interest in guaranteeing cost-free access to birth control.


yeah...that's probably correct. although I still think there should be a burden upon the corp to demonstrate that these are sincerly held religious beliefs.
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Re: Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby eynon81 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:46 am

John Galt wrote:
Philly2 wrote:These guys previously provided contraception and only had religious issues after there was a mandate to give it to all full time employees. Not that such a discrepancy settles the religious liberty question but I wouldn't think hobby lobby's religious objections could be considered sincere.


it seemed to be that the owners saw this obamacare stuff and thought "my heavens forcing us to pay for contraceptives that kill unborn babies? get debrah on the phone. debbie? yeah make sure that whatever new plan we have to get for this new obamacare thing, make sure it doesn't have baby killers paid for. come again? what. wait what. are you. you're fired."

"what happened frank?"

"i had to fire debbie."

"but why?"

"we've been killing babies for years and she never told us"

next thing you know, lawsuit. and they won


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Re: Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby Indy » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:42 pm

So, when can we start seeing "religious" for-profit companies start firing gay employees?

After all, when you talk to those "religious" people well you know the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin so why should our religious beliefs be violated by some non-discrimination law?
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Re: Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby Philly » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:46 pm

Indy wrote:So, when can we start seeing "religious" for-profit companies start firing gay employees?

After all, when you talk to those "religious" people well you know the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin so why should our religious beliefs be violated by some non-discrimination law?

As I understand it this was a pretty narrow ruling so I don't think that extrapolation can be assumed as of now.
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Re: Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby Gremlin » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:58 pm

SoOOoo,... I guess the mandate is legitimate?

It is completely irrelevant if Hobby Lobby makes a valid religious claim or not. The mandate is no more legitimate then the mafia offering protection to the ice cream shop.
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Re: Businesses have religious liberty....

Postby Philly » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:06 pm

Cons are truly vile. The 5 SCOTUS justices (all men) who rules in favor of hobby lobby are not pro life, they're anti woman. Notice that their sacred right to boner pills is still protected, for no other reason than stroking the egos of flaccid octogenarians, but the right to legitimate medicine and medical procedures for women is somehow a bridge too far.
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