UN intervention as gov turns off water supply in Detroit

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Re: UN intervention as gov turns off water supply in Detroit

Postby John Galt » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:21 pm

exploited wrote:
Spider wrote:
exploited wrote:At this point, the state government needs to declare a state of emergency, and then invite the federal government to step in to get Detroit under control. It is unacceptable for any Western city to deny water, police, firefighting, basic infrastructure care, etc. This is North America, for f**k sake, not some shithole in Cambodia.

Americans applying to the United Nations for help. Christ.


Thing is that in Cambodia even the municipal water isn't something I'd want to drink without a bunch of iodine caps. Doesn't matter which set of imaginary lines it happens in. Everything has to be paid for. Pay it with taxes, cut a check, whatever, but paid it has to be. Utility bills are part of having a house. There is even low income assistance to help out with the cheap basics like water. I think we've got the right idea above, that people got it in their heads that they could just not pay and get away with it...and then over a long period of time a trivial expense turned into a greater one. Logically it follows that paying the power bill is also a reasonably good idea.

I assume that if I started just stealing city water they'd shut it off on me as well. As they well should. So I don't do that. (Which is easy in my case since its included in the fees for the building, and is almost nothing compared to actually paying for the place each month). TANSTAAFL principal applies.

But yeah, Detroit needs to be bulldozed into a hole and returned to agriculture. Its usefulness is long past.


Couple things:

1. The government is creating a massive public safety issue. It is like 900 degrees out and they just cut the water off to thousands of people, all of whom are already disadvantaged and thus unable to really just pick up and leave.

2. Access to water ought to be considered a basic human right. It is outrageous that a modern nation like America or Canada would do something like this, regardless of the culpability of the residents.

3. Get some pride dude. You always rage out about America except for when it counts. You've got a bunch of Americans living in third world conditions. Jesus, how does that not bother you? I feel like the only people who actually give a shit about America's reputation aren't actually American.


F = 9C/5 + 32. it certainly wasn't 900 out. either way, it's not a human right. it's a human need, and i'm a darwinist
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Re: UN intervention as gov turns off water supply in Detroit

Postby Lobster » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:28 pm

It's rare in this day and age to see someone unironically proud of being a social darwinist. Then again it's someone sporting the nick John Galt, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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Re: UN intervention as gov turns off water supply in Detroit

Postby Spider » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:27 am

exploited wrote:
1. The government is creating a massive public safety issue. It is like 900 degrees out and they just cut the water off to thousands of people, all of whom are already disadvantaged and thus unable to really just pick up and leave.


To be clear, the government hasn't created the issue. The blame lies with those who decided that paying a utility bill was optional. Whats the solution? Just give everyone free utilities if they decide en masse that they'd rather not pay? How exactly do we set that precedent?

2. Access to water ought to be considered a basic human right. It is outrageous that a modern nation like America or Canada would do something like this, regardless of the culpability of the residents.


Water that has been sanitized, pressurized, and delivered into you home at the turn of a knob, in conjunction with the removal of resultant wastewater from same is a service that one pays for. Its a utility. And its not even expensive. Obviously people should have a right to that which they can't live without...but how far does that go? Do we all get free food as well? Free shelter, clothing, heat, etc? If people decide that they don't want to pay someone to deliver pressurized, treated water to their kitchens and bathrooms, I'm pretty sure they're allowed that decision. Its pretty nice though, that running water thing.

If homeowners are deciding to try to steal water...that's on them. Landlords are required to maintain water hookups, or stipulate such in lease agreements, as far as I'm aware. So who exactly is it other than homeowners, (who can afford to buy houses, to say nothing of a water bill) that are pulling this stunt?



3. Get some pride dude. You always rage out about America except for when it counts. You've got a bunch of Americans living in third world conditions. Jesus, how does that not bother you? I feel like the only people who actually give a shit about America's reputation aren't actually American.


Taking even the faintest pride in anything even tangentially related to this country is not acceptable on this site. I once made the mistake of suggesting that Americans are good at making breakfast. Even that was apparently an outrage. :) So...why?

Your misconceptions/assumptions/projections about me personally are not relevant to the topic. Same goes for incorrect presumptions about what does or doesn't "bother" me.
Last edited by Spider on Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: UN intervention as gov turns off water supply in Detroit

Postby Spider » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:50 am

Mr.Bill wrote:@ Spider and John: The city still picks my garbage.. But now I pay them to do it, where it was free before. Not exactly free, I paid with my taxes, now I pay extra every month...


We've got a bunch of private entities that take care of it, with heavy municipal oversight. Monthly bill. Everyone gets extremely bitchy if the recyclables aren't sorted and separated, but its mostly pretty good. Beats the hell out of hauling your own trash down to the dump.

...which is exactly what everyone did when I was living out in small ranching communities as a teenager. When the garbage can got full you tossed it in the back of the pickup and headed to the dump. I think they started charging for that, though, as it was getting transported and processed by a company that worked at the state level. First Small Town X I got stuck in literally just had a free dump that you tossed your garbage into, and it got hauled once the containers filled. In decades past a lot of these small towns simply had their own landfills, and little regulation or oversight. Pretty much illegal nowadays though.
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Re: UN intervention as gov turns off water supply in Detroit

Postby Philly » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:03 am

Spider wrote:
exploited wrote:
1. The government is creating a massive public safety issue. It is like 900 degrees out and they just cut the water off to thousands of people, all of whom are already disadvantaged and thus unable to really just pick up and leave.


To be clear, the government hasn't created the issue. The blame lies with those who decided that paying a utility bill was optional. Whats the solution? Just give everyone free utilities if they decide en masse that they'd rather not pay? How exactly do we set that precedent?

2. Access to water ought to be considered a basic human right. It is outrageous that a modern nation like America or Canada would do something like this, regardless of the culpability of the residents.


Water that has been sanitized, pressurized, and delivered into you home at the turn of a knob, in conjunction with the removal of resultant wastewater from same is a service that one pays for. Its a utility. And its not even expensive. Obviously people should have a right to that which they can't live without...but how far does that go? Do we all get free food as well? Free shelter, clothing, heat, etc? If people decide that they don't want to pay someone to deliver pressurized, treated water to their kitchens and bathrooms, I'm pretty sure they're allowed that decision. Its pretty nice though, that running water thing.

If homeowners are deciding to try to steal water...that's on them. Landlords are required to maintain water hookups, or stipulate such in lease agreements, as far as I'm aware. So who exactly is it other than homeowners, (who can afford to buy houses, to say nothing of a water bill) that are pulling this stunt?



3. Get some pride dude. You always rage out about America except for when it counts. You've got a bunch of Americans living in third world conditions. Jesus, how does that not bother you? I feel like the only people who actually give a shit about America's reputation aren't actually American.


Taking even the faintest pride in anything even tangentially related to this country is not acceptable on this site. I once made the mistake of suggesting that Americans are good at making breakfast. Even that was apparently an outrage. :) So...why?

Your misconceptions/assumptions/projections about me personally are not relevant to the topic. Same goes for incorrect presumptions about what does or doesn't "bother" me.



So to summarize you think people should be denied clean water because they're late on their bill and you hate America.

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Re: UN intervention as gov turns off water supply in Detroit

Postby Winchester » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:33 pm

Philly2 wrote:
Mr.Bill wrote:The city still picks my garbage.. But now I pay them to do it, where it was free before. Not exactly free, I paid with my taxes, now I pay extra every month...

Yeah see I dunno why anyone prefers this. What human doesn't produce garbage? Why not pay for it as a community rather than as individuals?


I've lived in places where the municipality picked up garbage and in communities where you had to contract with a private company to pick it up (unless you want to haul it to the landfill yourself). Best and cheapest service is currently with the private company. I have access to a more than adequate bin that they provide and they pick it up once/week. Costs me all of $16/month, hell of a deal. When I reroofed my garage I paid them $80 to drop off one of those giant bins right next to my garage and them come pick it up and haul it to the dump when I was done... hell of a deal.

One municipality wasn't bad at all and they had city workers/garbage service etc. Hands down the worst was in the union town and all the workers were unionized. Shit they still had the old type of trucks were one drove the truck and 2 rode on the back to manually dump (and beat to shit) the old metal waste bins (that you had to provide). Expensive as heck to.
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Re: UN intervention as gov turns off water supply in Detroit

Postby Libertarian602 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:26 am

Get sanctimonius much?
Philly2 wrote:
exploited wrote:
Spider wrote:
exploited wrote:At this point, the state government needs to declare a state of emergency, and then invite the federal government to step in to get Detroit under control. It is unacceptable for any Western city to deny water, police, firefighting, basic infrastructure care, etc. This is North America, for f**k sake, not some shithole in Cambodia.

Americans applying to the United Nations for help. Christ.


Thing is that in Cambodia even the municipal water isn't something I'd want to drink without a bunch of iodine caps. Doesn't matter which set of imaginary lines it happens in. Everything has to be paid for. Pay it with taxes, cut a check, whatever, but paid it has to be. Utility bills are part of having a house. There is even low income assistance to help out with the cheap basics like water. I think we've got the right idea above, that people got it in their heads that they could just not pay and get away with it...and then over a long period of time a trivial expense turned into a greater one. Logically it follows that paying the power bill is also a reasonably good idea.

I assume that if I started just stealing city water they'd shut it off on me as well. As they well should. So I don't do that. (Which is easy in my case since its included in the fees for the building, and is almost nothing compared to actually paying for the place each month). TANSTAAFL principal applies.

But yeah, Detroit needs to be bulldozed into a hole and returned to agriculture. Its usefulness is long past.


Couple things:

1. The government is creating a massive public safety issue. It is like 900 degrees out and they just cut the water off to thousands of people, all of whom are already disadvantaged and thus unable to really just pick up and leave.

2. Access to water ought to be considered a basic human right. It is outrageous that a modern nation like America or Canada would do something like this, regardless of the culpability of the residents.

3. Get some pride dude. You always rage out about America except for when it counts. You've got a bunch of Americans living in third world conditions. Jesus, how does that not bother you? I feel like the only people who actually give a shit about America's reputation aren't actually American.

Spider's well documented hatred for the poor is typical of him and others like him who think that having 3rd world conditions for some ENHANCES American pride. Rugged individualism and all. Total bullshit. Remember we're talking about the same dude who would throw 80 year old ladies off Medicare cause they're adults and should find there own insurance.

The good news is people like him are countered by lots of Americans who don't buy this nonsense.

I'm a real American patriot who doesn't believe it's acceptable for a quarter of the population in a major American city just have their access to water shut off.
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