150 years later

Items of historical significance.

Re: 150 years later

Postby John Galt » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:24 am

i went to vicksburg last summer and besides it being insanely hot and being kicked out of the park it was pretty interesting. ive been to most of the major battles out east but this was one of the only spots out west i have gone to.
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 150 years later

Postby Dylan » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:31 am

Professor wrote:Single biggest blunder in US military history? The South starting the war. FFS, why do that?

So they can keep slaves. It's well-known why they started the war.

That same spirit of social justice has remained with the south to this very day.
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Re: 150 years later

Postby Professor » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:09 pm

John Galt wrote:i went to vicksburg last summer and besides it being insanely hot and being kicked out of the park it was pretty interesting. ive been to most of the major battles out east but this was one of the only spots out west i have gone to.


West?
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Re: 150 years later

Postby John Galt » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:11 pm

Professor wrote:
John Galt wrote:i went to vicksburg last summer and besides it being insanely hot and being kicked out of the park it was pretty interesting. ive been to most of the major battles out east but this was one of the only spots out west i have gone to.


West?


west in terms of where the civil war was...
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Re: 150 years later

Postby eynon81 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:53 pm

Professor wrote:
Dylan wrote:Only 365K Americans died. 264K confederates died too.but America rarely worries about foreigners death toll when we're waging war.

I get the angst but tragically some ways of life are objectively superior to others.


Dunno. But this site says 600k military deaths.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/civil ... lties.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/scien ... .html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/2012/05/29/153937334 ... really-off
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1085859

the original 630K estimate was established by some Vets/Historians in the 1870s looking at incomplete records, also they didn't count civilians...and while neither army went around slaughtering non-combatants all that often the war caused an awful lot of suffering which directly lead to civi deaths.
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Re: 150 years later

Postby eynon81 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:55 pm

John Galt wrote:
Professor wrote:
Dylan wrote:Only 365K Americans died. 264K confederates died too.but America rarely worries about foreigners death toll when we're waging war.

I get the angst but tragically some ways of life are objectively superior to others.


Dunno. But this site says 600k military deaths.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/civil ... lties.html


actually some people put the number closer to a million. like someone gets shot, gets sent home and dies 4 weeks later, not counted as having died from the war. but he clearly did.



the Confederate death toll at Gettysburg is a good example of this. Something like 10,000 wounded were loaded into wagons and shuffled back to Virgina, maybe 40% of them died on the way.
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Re: 150 years later

Postby eynon81 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:59 pm

Dylan wrote:
Professor wrote:Single biggest blunder in US military history? The South starting the war. FFS, why do that?

So they can keep slaves. It's well-known why they started the war.

That same spirit of social justice has remained with the south to this very day.



SC, MI, AL, GA, TX, FL and LA for sure.

VA, NC, AR, and TN not as much.

TN never really broke away.
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Re: 150 years later

Postby John Galt » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:07 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_T ... _Civil_War prof, the western theater's westernmost battles were in vicksburg and baton rouge. the western theater is also includes sherman's march to the sea

wiki wrote:The Western Theater was an area defined by both geography and the sequence of campaigning. It originally represented the area east of the Mississippi River and west of the Appalachian Mountains. It excluded operations against the Gulf Coast and the Eastern Seaboard, but as the war progressed and William Tecumseh Sherman's Union armies moved southeast from Chattanooga, Tennessee, in 1864 and 1865, the definition of the theater expanded to encompass their operations in Georgia and the Carolinas. Operations west of the Mississippi River were in the Trans-Mississippi Theater.


the trans-mississippi theater was like, 100 vs 80 men battles in a bunch of unorganized territories. the western theater was the union winning everything, while the eastern had the rebels holding out longer than they should have
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Re: 150 years later

Postby eynon81 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:11 pm

John Galt wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Theater_of_the_American_Civil_War prof, the western theater's westernmost battles were in vicksburg and baton rouge. the western theater is also includes sherman's march to the sea

wiki wrote:The Western Theater was an area defined by both geography and the sequence of campaigning. It originally represented the area east of the Mississippi River and west of the Appalachian Mountains. It excluded operations against the Gulf Coast and the Eastern Seaboard, but as the war progressed and William Tecumseh Sherman's Union armies moved southeast from Chattanooga, Tennessee, in 1864 and 1865, the definition of the theater expanded to encompass their operations in Georgia and the Carolinas. Operations west of the Mississippi River were in the Trans-Mississippi Theater.


the trans-mississippi theater was like, 100 vs 80 men battles in a bunch of unorganized territories. the western theater was the union winning everything, while the eastern had the rebels holding out longer than they should have


yep, even the South's big victory... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chickamauga ...was probably a long term strategic defeat. They lost so many men that it set up the huge Union victories around Chattanooga later that fall.

biggest battle fought way far west:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Glorieta_Pass
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Re: 150 years later

Postby Professor » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:10 pm

Yeah, I know that there is a CW battlefield here in NO. But it gets no attention. We pay much more attention to the War of 1812, in fact (Battle of New Orleans, Andrew Jackson, etc.). You never hear anything about the Union capture of New Orleans. Like, never.
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