150 years later

Items of historical significance.

Re: 150 years later

Postby eynon81 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:46 am

Professor wrote:
Dylan wrote:Was it a big deal in the south? I understand there's still some angst there because we wouldn't let you guys keep your slaves.


Well, I grew up in a somewhat rural area of Louisiana (Hammond, LA). Lots of friends with farms and stuff. Not once did I run into anyone who seriously said anything bad about the "War of Northern Aggression". It was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

However, I went to a private catholic school, so I rarely hung out with the people who I think still do hold a grudge that was passed down to them by their grandpappy.

However, I will say that I don't believe that the angst comes from not being able to keep slaves. I believe that the angst comes from "other people" (Northerners) interfering with our way of life. That way of life could have been smoking dope and skinny dipping (assume an alternate reality where 600k Americans died to defend hippy lifestyles), and the angst would still be the same. Sure, there are plenty of racists, but none think that slavery is OK.

Well, let me qualify that last statement. There are far fewer people that think slavery is OK than there are people who think their pastor is the second coming, or that Allah will give them 72 virgins, etc. In other words, there are extremists, but it's not prevalent.


Tony Horowitz talks about that in Confederates in the Attic and I noticed it as well when I was down there. CW isn't as big a deal in Louisiana because Louisiana has a lot of other history. Plus New Orleans kinda "meh"d its way into secession and then mostly just shrugged when the Union invaded.

For my family in North Carolina it's a much bigger deal. (which is ironic because NC only joined the Confederacy by 1 vote)
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Re: 150 years later

Postby Dylan » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:46 am

Only 365K Americans died. 264K confederates died too.but America rarely worries about foreigners death toll when we're waging war.

I get the angst but tragically some ways of life are objectively superior to others.
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Re: 150 years later

Postby eynon81 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:54 am

John Galt wrote:
eynon81 wrote:anyone else surprised how little fan-fare there's been over the 150th anniversary of the Civil War? unpopular or still too touchy?


well obama had the flags go half mast, but for lincoln, not for appomattox

i don't think it's "too touchy" but people just more like don't care that much. "long time ago"



yeah but it's still waaaay important to who we are today.....lots of echo issues.


also should point out that Europe did/is doing a lot more to commemorate WW1:
Image f**k epic...nice they counted all the commonwealth dead too.

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even specific events like the Christmas truce:
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Re: 150 years later

Postby eynon81 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:56 am

Dylan wrote:Only 365K Americans died. 264K confederates died too.but America rarely worries about foreigners death toll when we're waging war.

I get the angst but tragically some ways of life are objectively superior to others.



probably more like a million died (including civilians), probably 800,000 soldiers. The Confederates were under-counting, especially late in the war when they were getting steam-rolled.
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Re: 150 years later

Postby Professor » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:58 am

eynon81 wrote:
Professor wrote:
Dylan wrote:Was it a big deal in the south? I understand there's still some angst there because we wouldn't let you guys keep your slaves.


Well, I grew up in a somewhat rural area of Louisiana (Hammond, LA). Lots of friends with farms and stuff. Not once did I run into anyone who seriously said anything bad about the "War of Northern Aggression". It was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

However, I went to a private catholic school, so I rarely hung out with the people who I think still do hold a grudge that was passed down to them by their grandpappy.

However, I will say that I don't believe that the angst comes from not being able to keep slaves. I believe that the angst comes from "other people" (Northerners) interfering with our way of life. That way of life could have been smoking dope and skinny dipping (assume an alternate reality where 600k Americans died to defend hippy lifestyles), and the angst would still be the same. Sure, there are plenty of racists, but none think that slavery is OK.

Well, let me qualify that last statement. There are far fewer people that think slavery is OK than there are people who think their pastor is the second coming, or that Allah will give them 72 virgins, etc. In other words, there are extremists, but it's not prevalent.


Tony Horowitz talks about that in Confederates in the Attic and I noticed it as well when I was down there. CW isn't as big a deal in Louisiana because Louisiana has a lot of other history. Plus New Orleans kinda "meh"d its way into secession and then mostly just shrugged when the Union invaded.

For my family in North Carolina it's a much bigger deal. (which is ironic because NC only joined the Confederacy by 1 vote)


Wow - OK. Never really knew that.
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Re: 150 years later

Postby Professor » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:59 am

Dylan wrote:Only 365K Americans died. 264K confederates died too.but America rarely worries about foreigners death toll when we're waging war.

I get the angst but tragically some ways of life are objectively superior to others.


Dunno. But this site says 600k military deaths.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/civil ... lties.html
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Re: 150 years later

Postby Professor » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:01 am

Single biggest blunder in US military history? The South starting the war. FFS, why do that?
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Re: 150 years later

Postby John Galt » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:04 am

Professor wrote:
Dylan wrote:Only 365K Americans died. 264K confederates died too.but America rarely worries about foreigners death toll when we're waging war.

I get the angst but tragically some ways of life are objectively superior to others.


Dunno. But this site says 600k military deaths.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/civil ... lties.html


actually some people put the number closer to a million. like someone gets shot, gets sent home and dies 4 weeks later, not counted as having died from the war. but he clearly did.
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: 150 years later

Postby The Comrade » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:06 am

at least they're consistent in making bad decisions.
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Re: 150 years later

Postby John Galt » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:13 am

eynon81 wrote:
Dylan wrote:Only 365K Americans died. 264K confederates died too.but America rarely worries about foreigners death toll when we're waging war.

I get the angst but tragically some ways of life are objectively superior to others.



probably more like a million died (including civilians), probably 800,000 soldiers. The Confederates were under-counting, especially late in the war when they were getting steam-rolled.


9,638,453 1820 census
12,866,020 1830 census (33% increase)
17,069,453 1840 census (32% increase)
23,191,876 1850 census (39% increase)
31,443,321 1860 census (35% increase)
38,555,983 1870 census (22% increase)

41,819,617 (33% increase over 1860, which seems about normal for the time) - 38,555,983 (actual 1870 census) = 3,263,634

the toll was large
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt

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