Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in history?

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Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in history?

Postby gryphus » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:23 pm

One example of that was the taking of "Hamburger Hill" it wasn't that big of an operation but still marines gave their lives. Operation took months, tons of explosives dropped on Ho Chi Mins path to stop NVA to carry munitions and supplies up on the mountains, 70+ marines dead even more injured, victory for US army, the soldiers were wondering was it worth to take over this hill, they hoped there's a good reason. Two weeks later US forces abandon the hill, not long after that NVA retake the hill without fight. So why in the F they send soldiers fight for that peace of land and then abandon it and NVA took it back , why? Don't give me carp that it was war against communism that's bulls*it, it was a war without purpose it was just chaos and madness.
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Re: Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in histor

Postby spacemonkey » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:35 pm

gryphus wrote:One example of that was the taking of "Hamburger Hill" it wasn't that big of an operation but still marines gave their lives. Operation took months, tons of explosives dropped on Ho Chi Mins path to stop NVA to carry munitions and supplies up on the mountains, 70+ marines dead even more injured, victory for US army, the soldiers were wondering was it worth to take over this hill, they hoped there's a good reason. Two weeks later US forces abandon the hill, not long after that NVA retake the hill without fight. So why in the F they send soldiers fight for that peace of land and then abandon it and NVA took it back , why? Don't give me carp that it was war against communism that's bulls*it, it was a war without purpose it was just chaos and madness.

Every conflict since WW2 had the same lack of goal.
The hardest part of doing nothing is knowing when your done.
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Re: Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in histor

Postby gryphus » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:25 pm

spacemonkey wrote:
gryphus wrote:One example of that was the taking of "Hamburger Hill" it wasn't that big of an operation but still marines gave their lives. Operation took months, tons of explosives dropped on Ho Chi Mins path to stop NVA to carry munitions and supplies up on the mountains, 70+ marines dead even more injured, victory for US army, the soldiers were wondering was it worth to take over this hill, they hoped there's a good reason. Two weeks later US forces abandon the hill, not long after that NVA retake the hill without fight. So why in the F they send soldiers fight for that peace of land and then abandon it and NVA took it back , why? Don't give me carp that it was war against communism that's bulls*it, it was a war without purpose it was just chaos and madness.

Every conflict since WW2 had the same lack of goal.


every conflict started by the US
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Re: Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in histor

Postby eynon81 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:00 pm

gryphus wrote:One example of that was the taking of "Hamburger Hill" it wasn't that big of an operation but still marines gave their lives. Operation took months, tons of explosives dropped on Ho Chi Mins path to stop NVA to carry munitions and supplies up on the mountains, 70+ marines dead even more injured, victory for US army, the soldiers were wondering was it worth to take over this hill, they hoped there's a good reason. Two weeks later US forces abandon the hill, not long after that NVA retake the hill without fight. So why in the F they send soldiers fight for that peace of land and then abandon it and NVA took it back , why? Don't give me carp that it was war against communism that's bulls*it, it was a war without purpose it was just chaos and madness.


yeah, that was the WW2 guys fault. the military leadership was waging a war of attrition alla the last two world-wars completely oblivious to the fact that the American public did not want to drown the VC in American bodies.

Should have let the Brits run it. Those guys can fight an insurgency.
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Re: Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in histor

Postby BurntOffering » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:54 am

spacemonkey wrote:Every conflict since WW2 had the same lack of goal.

Almost all the conflicts' goals were waged because of the US were interested in resources / in political power in the regions of every conflict. The war in Vietnam gave no good result, so it's a complete fail of the government.
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Re: Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in histor

Postby battleax86 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:23 am

eynon81 wrote:
gryphus wrote:One example of that was the taking of "Hamburger Hill" it wasn't that big of an operation but still marines gave their lives. Operation took months, tons of explosives dropped on Ho Chi Mins path to stop NVA to carry munitions and supplies up on the mountains, 70+ marines dead even more injured, victory for US army, the soldiers were wondering was it worth to take over this hill, they hoped there's a good reason. Two weeks later US forces abandon the hill, not long after that NVA retake the hill without fight. So why in the F they send soldiers fight for that peace of land and then abandon it and NVA took it back , why? Don't give me carp that it was war against communism that's bulls*it, it was a war without purpose it was just chaos and madness.


yeah, that was the WW2 guys fault. the military leadership was waging a war of attrition alla the last two world-wars completely oblivious to the fact that the American public did not want to drown the VC in American bodies.

Should have let the Brits run it. Those guys can fight an insurgency.

It would've been interesting to see if the Brits could fight an insurgency...or any war, for that matter...with the same media coverage that the Americans had to deal with in Vietnam. It's a good thing for the Allied cause that Walter Cronkite was nowhere near Dunkirk in 1940.
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Re: Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in histor

Postby xdangerousxdavex » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:23 am

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Re: Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in histor

Postby John Galt » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:12 am

the us could have won the vietnam war if it wasn't for the media

for example, the OP mentions hamburger hill. while a bungling of things by the military command the thing that drove it home was life magazine publishing pictures of war dead that week. they published pictures of 241 people who died in vietnam and gave the impression that they were from Hamburger Hill. Nope, only 5 of those pictured died there, the rest elsewhere. but since the people saw this, they then heard about the relatively small value of the fight, and all these pictures of those dead boys... and perception radically shifted. who cares that really only 72 people died at hamburger hill... those pictures were thought to be all from there, and that was from media manipulation.

this effort by the media continued, for both good and bad. for the good, they did show things that the government was lying about to the american people. however, they declared it could only end in statement (by they, i mean walter cronkite) even though the us was making gains, and it lost most all support for the war. i many respects they told as big of lies as the us government, just different ones
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Re: Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in histor

Postby NAB » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:25 am

That's all very interesting, but the lead is really being buried here (media tie in?): wtf were we there in the first place? Lots of shoulda, coulda, woulda, but not much why. That's where the media really fails the citizens. It's not like this problem has improved since Vietnam.
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Re: Vietnam war was fought for the biggest NOTHING in histor

Postby eynon81 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:36 am

John Galt wrote:the us could have won the vietnam war if it wasn't for the media

for example, the OP mentions hamburger hill. while a bungling of things by the military command the thing that drove it home was life magazine publishing pictures of war dead that week. they published pictures of 241 people who died in vietnam and gave the impression that they were from Hamburger Hill. Nope, only 5 of those pictured died there, the rest elsewhere. but since the people saw this, they then heard about the relatively small value of the fight, and all these pictures of those dead boys... and perception radically shifted. who cares that really only 72 people died at hamburger hill... those pictures were thought to be all from there, and that was from media manipulation.

this effort by the media continued, for both good and bad. for the good, they did show things that the government was lying about to the american people. however, they declared it could only end in statement (by they, i mean walter cronkite) even though the us was making gains, and it lost most all support for the war. i many respects they told as big of lies as the us government, just different ones



big issue was that we wanted to avoid escalating the conflict and with good reason. The Chinese had thousands of troops in North Vietnam, so any invasion of the North would have kicked off a war with them. Even if we had been able to kick the Chinese out of Vietnam entirely the Soviets may have shrugged, claimed "tit for tat", and invaded West Berlin or Greece.
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