Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Items of historical significance.

Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby The Dharma Bum » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:29 pm

Video from : old youtube.com


Just as relevant today as it was then
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Re: Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby Philly » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:46 pm

Was this speech widely printed/broadcast at the time, or did it only gain attention later on?
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Re: Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby Philly » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:49 pm

Government secrecy is small potatoes compared to public complacency.

The NSA secretly spied on countless innocent citizens.Then we found out about it and the majority of people don't really seem phased.
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Re: Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby The Dharma Bum » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:53 pm

Philly2 wrote:Was this speech widely printed/broadcast at the time, or did it only gain attention later on?


I think it was fairly widely broadcast, but I'm not really sure. I just happened to come across it and was struck by how well his advice fits the contemporary situation.
Last edited by The Dharma Bum on Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby The Dharma Bum » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:54 pm

Philly2 wrote:Government secrecy is small potatoes compared to public complacency.

The NSA secretly spied on countless innocent citizens.Then we found out about it and the majority of people don't really seem phased.


Yep, that's a dilly of problem. What can be done?
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Re: Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby Philly » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:16 pm

The Dharma Bum wrote:
Philly2 wrote:Government secrecy is small potatoes compared to public complacency.

The NSA secretly spied on countless innocent citizens.Then we found out about it and the majority of people don't really seem phased.


Yep, that's a dilly of problem. What can be done?

I don't know. At one time there was optimism that the internet could be our savior as a means of educating and inspiring one another, but then social media happened and now everyone is more self absorbed and narcissistic than ever.
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Re: Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby The Dharma Bum » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:18 am

Philly2 wrote:
The Dharma Bum wrote:
Philly2 wrote:Government secrecy is small potatoes compared to public complacency.

The NSA secretly spied on countless innocent citizens.Then we found out about it and the majority of people don't really seem phased.


Yep, that's a dilly of problem. What can be done?

I don't know. At one time there was optimism that the internet could be our savior as a means of educating and inspiring one another, but then social media happened and now everyone is more self absorbed and narcissistic than ever.


High technology provides the means for greater individualized autonomy. Trends like technological advancement reflect the loss of the traditional social contract and therefore greater individuality.

I think the internet can still be a tool for that purpose, but trying to appeal to an individual's sense of social consciousness has far less effect than it did in earlier times. Also messages of this character are drowned by a morass of commercial and political propaganda that utilizes advanced understanding of human psychology in a way that exacerbates the effect by encouraging certain behaviors that are meant to direct mass behavior in a desired manner.

So basically, if you remove a enough undesired social behaviors in order to regiment society in a desired manner you create more individualized and superficial people by default. They simply become more concerned with their own needs, and even entertainment, than anything else.

Why shouldn't they? Selfish behavior that would have once been a social deficit now objectively benefits people. In fact the best strategy to succeed in our "civilized" society is to create a respectable social facade and covertly act entirely in one's own interests. But even this is becoming unnecessary as people's social expectations become less and less.

People wearing flip flops and shorts to a funeral is commonplace nowadays when that would have been taken as a grave insult in former times. That's just one minor example of thousands of how our the social contract doesn't mean what it used to to. Both parents having to be out of the home for the majority of the time working and the failure of institutionalized education to take of the slack has resulted in a bottom up breakdown in the social order. People don't give a shit nowadays, they just want to get home and sit down in front of the TV and watch a fake society where they have "Friends" and a "A Place Where Everyone Knows Your Name.".

So any message has to penetrate a lot a noise
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Re: Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby Philly » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:04 am

But what happens when people do take interest in issues beyond their tiny little world. We post pictures of Joseph Kony or a pink "=" sign in our Facebook profiles. Or sign online petitions. The internet has just allowed us to feel like we're part of a social movement without doing anything. Probably a contributing factor to OWS failing when people attempted to go out and do something in real life.

People are also so apathetic about this kind of stuff because they don't believe they can make a difference, however, political organizing is a real thing. People do it for a living and often achieve their objectives. It's just an actual skill that people would have to learn and put work into. I know it isn't realistic to expect the masses to take up political organizing as a side hobby, but it annoys me when people use the easy out of "i can't make a difference" rather than acknowledging the truth: "it's not really that important to me". I couldnt learn how to build a car in 30 minutes, but I don't claim that it's impossible to build cars. I just don't want to invest the time and energy.
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Re: Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby The Dharma Bum » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:20 am

There's a reason for that. I explained it briefly in my preceding post.

People can't make a difference unless they act in unison. Things like government secrecy exist to prevent this. Political organizing is a real thing but when people do it effectively they end up dead. It does lead to change, though. The outrage of the American public at the appalling way the labor movement in the USA was crushed lead to the adoption of modern labor standards. Totally inadequate still to this day, but far better than what came before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... and_events

People have been trying to organize labor in North American since the 1600s it's just not a well known aspect of US history in the US because it's not our finest hour so there's usually some mention of it but glossed over in the most superficial way when it is probably the most critical aspect of US history in regard to the development of the modern world.
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Re: Kennedy speaks on government secrecy

Postby The Dharma Bum » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:25 am

The internet has just allowed us to feel like we're part of a social movement without doing anything.


Critical point.

We are a society of ineffectual watchers, not doers. Just wait until 45% of the jobs that now exist are done by automation or software.

There won't be any need for lawyers, judges, real estate agents, publishers, or teachers. The sum total of human knowledge is being encoded into software and taken out of the hands of the individual human. Pretty soon all we will do is watch while the machines do everything for us.

;;)
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