Canada

The place for general political discussion.

Re: Canada

Postby exploited » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:24 pm

John Galt wrote:
exploited wrote:
John Galt wrote:how'd I improve canada? i'd try to bring in all the benefits of america. economic union with the US and open borders entirely like europe. this would require treaties about immigration with the US to let in the same kind of people in both countries. i believe canada lets in far less people but they'll take any tom dick and harry, while the US lets in way more people but are choosier about not having terrorists and stuff

economic union is important because canada will suffer from having an economy dependent on resource extraction and housing bubbles. economic union would help even that out so their dollar didn't crash. there is no benefit for the US to give up the dollar, so it would be canada using the US dollar. we can adopt new dollar designs that represent both countries of course, but it would be the The Dollar.

no customs between the US and Canada would be a massive boon to the economies of both along the border, but i think canada would benefit especially


This is impossible domestically. Canadians will not accept union with the US in that way. Maybe if you guys bought out our dollar 1:1, we'd go for a currency union. But customs won't happen, you guys are too crazy with your weapons, and we'd also be importing all of your security threats.


not paying a dollar for something worth less than a dollar. that's crazy.

as for the customs thing, it's not like law abiding people would be bringing guns across. it would be noted that it is illegal, and basically nothing would change. it's gonna be sad watching the canadian economy implode after the vancouver housing market crashes and oil is already down


We'll be fine. The housing market is an incredible problem, but it isn't insurmountable. Same with transportation and healthcare. We have everything we need to be fine, even if the economy crashes tomorrow. No Canadian citizen will go without healthcare, food and some degree of autonomy.

Part of the reason why I don't want to enter into union with the US is the idea that I'd share border rights and a currency with the GOP and their lackeys.

Canada isn't powerful but I'll be damned if we join into union with one of the largest socioeconomic criminal organizations in the world.
User avatar
exploited
Vice President
 
Posts: 21039
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:32 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 2216 times
Been thanked: 1702 times

Re: Canada

Postby Saz » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:42 am

exploited wrote:
John Galt wrote:
exploited wrote:
John Galt wrote:how'd I improve canada? i'd try to bring in all the benefits of america. economic union with the US and open borders entirely like europe. this would require treaties about immigration with the US to let in the same kind of people in both countries. i believe canada lets in far less people but they'll take any tom dick and harry, while the US lets in way more people but are choosier about not having terrorists and stuff

economic union is important because canada will suffer from having an economy dependent on resource extraction and housing bubbles. economic union would help even that out so their dollar didn't crash. there is no benefit for the US to give up the dollar, so it would be canada using the US dollar. we can adopt new dollar designs that represent both countries of course, but it would be the The Dollar.

no customs between the US and Canada would be a massive boon to the economies of both along the border, but i think canada would benefit especially


This is impossible domestically. Canadians will not accept union with the US in that way. Maybe if you guys bought out our dollar 1:1, we'd go for a currency union. But customs won't happen, you guys are too crazy with your weapons, and we'd also be importing all of your security threats.


not paying a dollar for something worth less than a dollar. that's crazy.

as for the customs thing, it's not like law abiding people would be bringing guns across. it would be noted that it is illegal, and basically nothing would change. it's gonna be sad watching the canadian economy implode after the vancouver housing market crashes and oil is already down


We'll be fine. The housing market is an incredible problem, but it isn't insurmountable. Same with transportation and healthcare. We have everything we need to be fine, even if the economy crashes tomorrow. No Canadian citizen will go without healthcare, food and some degree of autonomy.

Part of the reason why I don't want to enter into union with the US is the idea that I'd share border rights and a currency with the GOP and their lackeys.

Canada isn't powerful but I'll be damned if we join into union with one of the largest socioeconomic criminal organizations in the world.


This would be your best path to power, actually. It isn't like Canada would have no say in setting the customs regime - if you really hate GMO lettuce or something I'm sure you can push to block it. You essentially end up taking our regulations anyway given the need for US market access every Canadian industry. Any customs union could provide Canada the same sort of flexibility that US states currently enjoy. The US is a federal system so it can easily accommodate 10 Canadian provinces that want to do their own thing on certain issues.

A monetary union would be a huge boon as well. Combined with a single banking and securities market and Canada would attract a massive amount of US and foreign investment, and would be able to take advantage of America's position as the worlds reserve currency and preeminent central bank. Yes, you have your own central bank and securities regulator etc but they really just follow America and yo would actually have more influence if you just sat on the FED board or had a few commissioners in the SEC. It wouldn't even be undemocratic - most Agencies that actually write regulation are run by 3-7 commissioners. Just add two or three to each agency, designated by the Canadian PM for set terms. You could do this for a ton of regulatory agencies like FCC, FAA, SEC...hell I would support Canada just running the EPA on it's own.

On borders and immigration just allow free movement of citizens (ie show an ID and illegals/recent syrian refugees cant move across freely until they become citizens of one country). A foreigner in the US on a visa can't just stroll into Canada. Guns are a non-issue, they would still be illegal in Canada and I'm sure you would have some special right to do border checks when you want if suspected arms/human trafficking. This would also make things much easier for Canadians who want to work in the US, or flipped (no complex visa/green cards etc).

This wouldn't be a political union, we would still elect our own reps and have our own legislators. It would just be adapting government and regulatory institutions to reflect the fact that we are basically the same sitting on this huge continent away from everyone else, we really don't need to duplicate all these structures and end up with laws or regulations that make things difficult between us. You may think the GOP is retarded but it would be better for Canada AND the US if Canada had a commissioner on the FCC right now, or if they had to consent to lunatic appointments like Pruit at the EPA. In the end you won't have net neutrality of we don't, you won't have clean air if we don't, so better to shape the system from the inside.

Still, a political union would be even better. Considers 10 provinces admitted as US states. GOP would never control the senate again, probably not the House either. Very tough path to the presidency as the 10 Canadian provinces would have as many electoral votes as California and would be solidly blue.
Pun intended for the plebes on here who don't get a joke

These users thanked the author Saz for the post:
John Galt
User avatar
Saz
Governor
 
Posts: 8509
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:37 am
Location: Airstrip One
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1071 times
Been thanked: 904 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Canada

Postby exploited » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:45 pm

That just isn't true though. We will have net neutrality. We will have clean air. And if America doesn't have those things, your country will suffer.

The thing with talking about currency or customs unions is that it is kind of besides the point. If you are considering that, just become a common nationality. This is what you propose, Saz, but it isn't a serious proposition and we both know it. Why would any Canadian citizen trade their current rights, privileges and customs for an American citizenship? I'm asking that honestly because the proposition strikes me as a bad idea intuitively. And then I consider the fact that Donald is President, and it becomes hysterical. No dude. This isn't a rehearsal for the Broadway version of "The Greatest Generation."

I don't want to be an American and you'd be hard-pressed to find any Canadians outside Alberta or Quebec who would.

Why would I want that? American society is imperfect and I already know the ways I want to emulate it. Old news. The fact that I live in an independent country of this size, on your border, is an incredible opportunity that would be wasted on statehood.
User avatar
exploited
Vice President
 
Posts: 21039
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:32 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 2216 times
Been thanked: 1702 times

Re: Canada

Postby spacemonkey » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:12 pm

The best thing I could do to improve Canada is move there. To bad I don't like cold.
The hardest part of doing nothing is knowing when your done.
spacemonkey
Governor
 
Posts: 4877
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:54 am
Location: cyberspace
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 270 times

Re: Canada

Postby John Galt » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:17 pm

Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 12421
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 580 times
Been thanked: 1295 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Canada

Postby John Galt » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:35 pm

exploited wrote:That just isn't true though. We will have net neutrality. We will have clean air. And if America doesn't have those things, your country will suffer.

The thing with talking about currency or customs unions is that it is kind of besides the point. If you are considering that, just become a common nationality. This is what you propose, Saz, but it isn't a serious proposition and we both know it. Why would any Canadian citizen trade their current rights, privileges and customs for an American citizenship? I'm asking that honestly because the proposition strikes me as a bad idea intuitively. And then I consider the fact that Donald is President, and it becomes hysterical. No dude. This isn't a rehearsal for the Broadway version of "The Greatest Generation."

I don't want to be an American and you'd be hard-pressed to find any Canadians outside Alberta or Quebec who would.

Why would I want that? American society is imperfect and I already know the ways I want to emulate it. Old news. The fact that I live in an independent country of this size, on your border, is an incredible opportunity that would be wasted on statehood.


well it doesn't have to be political union. saz is right, but you could just do economic monetary union. it would stabilize your money so much that you knwo what would happen? you know what guy? it would mean canadian hockey teams wouldn't have to be subsidized by americans again, and you'd be able to afford more hockey teams. how this hasn't itself sold the notion of economic union to all canadians is a mystery to me. the reason teams left was simply that the canadian dollar is volatile and was only buoyed by resource extraction or fake housing bubbles, buddy

regulations for imports like we're all one big country would be a huge benefit, friend. we could act as a block in future trade deals. we would deal with the European Union (EU), and they would deal with the North American Bros (NAB). it would benefit both countries but far and away would benefit canada more. the trade cooperation would lead to cooperation in enviornmental causes as well. we'd be able to align ourselves towards one goal. we already have a treaty on migratory birds, this would expand those types of things to be open to regulatory oversight that both countries contribute to. we can still have different implementations, but guy, you'd be able to address concerns you have with us dumping flint mi water in canada or something, and we'd be able to address dump tar sands into north dakota or whatever. it would help both buddy.

the political stuff, thats for another day, if and when our politics ever become centered on the same point, and after you ditch the god forsaken monarchy of course, friend
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 12421
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 580 times
Been thanked: 1295 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Canada

Postby exploited » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:15 pm

Economic monetary union requires a 1:1 exchange of dollars. It is politically unfeasible for the Canadian government to agree to a deal that would instantly eliminate 25-30% of every citizens wealth. You can fairly argue that the benefits would outweigh the cost, but good luck convincing an adequate amount of voters.

As for the political stuff, it would require an entire new system of government, probably a hybrid of parliamentary government and "checks and balances" federalism. Any notion of adopting the American system is a non-starter, because your Constitution is one of the worst in the modern Western world. It was written by ideological extremists and has been proven broken for 140 years.

As for the monarchy, why get rid of it? A united cultural tradition between Britain, US, Australia and Canada would be immensely powerful. Getting rid of it was one of your greatest downfalls. Royalty serves an aspirational function that white trash billionaire President's can and will not.
User avatar
exploited
Vice President
 
Posts: 21039
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:32 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 2216 times
Been thanked: 1702 times

Re: Canada

Postby Saz » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:55 pm

exploited wrote:Economic monetary union requires a 1:1 exchange of dollars. It is politically unfeasible for the Canadian government to agree to a deal that would instantly eliminate 25-30% of every citizens wealth. You can fairly argue that the benefits would outweigh the cost, but good luck convincing an adequate amount of voters.

As for the political stuff, it would require an entire new system of government, probably a hybrid of parliamentary government and "checks and balances" federalism. Any notion of adopting the American system is a non-starter, because your Constitution is one of the worst in the modern Western world. It was written by ideological extremists and has been proven broken for 140 years.

As for the monarchy, why get rid of it? A united cultural tradition between Britain, US, Australia and Canada would be immensely powerful. Getting rid of it was one of your greatest downfalls. Royalty serves an aspirational function that white trash billionaire President's can and will not.


It wouldn't require an exchange of dollars at 1:1, guy Why on earth would it? You think the Italians got one f**k euro per lira? They will fix a fair interest rate as of a set day, generally just saying that the rate will be pegged on X day at some trailing average. In fact, its just as likely canada comes out way ahead in this scenario of the canadian dollar is relatively overvalued when the peg is set.

It wouldn't require some hybrid legislature. There would still be two legislatures. Its really not that different a concept than the EU, pal.

And we bow to no king. All men are created equal and no one sits above another, buddy. Allowing someone other nations regent to be your monarch is little more than geopolitical cuckholdry.
Pun intended for the plebes on here who don't get a joke
User avatar
Saz
Governor
 
Posts: 8509
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:37 am
Location: Airstrip One
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1071 times
Been thanked: 904 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Canada

Postby exploited » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:24 pm

Saz wrote:
exploited wrote:Economic monetary union requires a 1:1 exchange of dollars. It is politically unfeasible for the Canadian government to agree to a deal that would instantly eliminate 25-30% of every citizens wealth. You can fairly argue that the benefits would outweigh the cost, but good luck convincing an adequate amount of voters.

As for the political stuff, it would require an entire new system of government, probably a hybrid of parliamentary government and "checks and balances" federalism. Any notion of adopting the American system is a non-starter, because your Constitution is one of the worst in the modern Western world. It was written by ideological extremists and has been proven broken for 140 years.

As for the monarchy, why get rid of it? A united cultural tradition between Britain, US, Australia and Canada would be immensely powerful. Getting rid of it was one of your greatest downfalls. Royalty serves an aspirational function that white trash billionaire President's can and will not.


It wouldn't require an exchange of dollars at 1:1, guy Why on earth would it? You think the Italians got one f**k euro per lira? They will fix a fair interest rate as of a set day, generally just saying that the rate will be pegged on X day at some trailing average. In fact, its just as likely canada comes out way ahead in this scenario of the canadian dollar is relatively overvalued when the peg is set.

It wouldn't require some hybrid legislature. There would still be two legislatures. Its really not that different a concept than the EU, pal.

And we bow to no king. All men are created equal and no one sits above another, buddy. Allowing someone other nations regent to be your monarch is little more than geopolitical cuckholdry.


Because that is what would be required to make such a deal happen. The only other way is the complete collapse of the Canadian economy, or annexation, which is unlikely to happen considering that we are sitting on the planets most productive land, inhabited by some of the planets most educated people, with one of the planets highest standards of living. Parity or f**k off.

In re: your second paragraph, I was talking about political union, not just an economic one. The point being that there is no way that a Canadian agrees to live under your political system. It is terrible. Why on earth would anyone want to adopt that?

Finally, the idea that all men are created equal is retarded. They aren't. This is a fact.

Despite the fact that Canada could remove the Queen as Head of State at any point, we don't. Why do you think that is? Cuckoldry?
User avatar
exploited
Vice President
 
Posts: 21039
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:32 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 2216 times
Been thanked: 1702 times

Re: Canada

Postby John Galt » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:47 pm

I really don't get your obsession with demanding that we pretend Canadian dollars are with what real dollars are worth. They aren't. It's why when you open books they say "$8.99 or 19.99 Canadian monies". Like this is some Trumpist ego shit coming out of you
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 12421
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 580 times
Been thanked: 1295 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron