Catalonian Independence

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Re: Catalonian Independence

Postby Spider » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:33 pm

NAB wrote:
Spider wrote:I'd like to see some better data on how many Catalans are actually behind this. According to the vote/voter turnout, and some weak ass polls, there is no popular support at all for this. Its just the separatist minority, even now. Was waiting to see if the crackdown turned opinion...but nope.


Interesting to note how much Julian Assange is involved in covering Catalan’s independence movement. He’s so invested in it you’d think he was born in the region.


Well, you know. A man without a country has no shortage of reasons to be anti-statist. His life is a disaster. He needs to feed off these sorts of things to feel like he matters. Otherwise, he's just some foolish shitheel trapped in an embassy.
Ernest Shackleton: "Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success."

Onward to Mars
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Re: Catalonian Independence

Postby Homer » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:44 am

John Galt wrote:
Spider wrote:Ok. So what now? It's not as if they can fight off Spain. They have no allies willing to help them fight off Spain. Are they planning on hunger strikes and strongly worded letters?

If Catalonia gets its independence, it won't be because of Catalans...it will be at Spain's pleasure.


spain will invoke §155 of the Constitution

If a Self-governing Community does not fulfil the obligations imposed upon it by the Constitution or other laws, or acts in a way that is seriously prejudicial to the general interest of Spain, the Government, after having lodged a complaint with the President of the Self-governing Community and failed to receive satisfaction therefore, may, following approval granted by the overall majority of the Senate, take all measures necessary to compel the Community to meet said obligations, or to protect the abovementioned general interest.


so basically, goodbye Catalonian government. the only way forward for you is to do it american style. right now, it looks grim. but who knows, [b]maybe they've been importing ARs for years and hiding them from authorities. [/b]brings a tear to my eye thinking about all that freedom

either way, historical time


Who are they? Most Catalans and most Catalonian politicians are opposed to independence. Are you suggesting that a minority should impose their will on the majority? Is that your definition of freedom?
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Re: Catalonian Independence

Postby Spider » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:06 am

Someone's sarcasm detector got snagged in a pool drain.

It's okay. I can relate. But damn was it thick in Galt's post.
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Re: Catalonian Independence

Postby Spider » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:22 am

Meanwhile, in Barcelona:

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Re: Catalonian Independence

Postby The Comrade » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:14 pm

Barcelona has a lot of transplants from the rest of Spain so that isn't surprising.
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Re: Catalonian Independence

Postby John Galt » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:13 pm

Homer wrote:
John Galt wrote:
Spider wrote:Ok. So what now? It's not as if they can fight off Spain. They have no allies willing to help them fight off Spain. Are they planning on hunger strikes and strongly worded letters?

If Catalonia gets its independence, it won't be because of Catalans...it will be at Spain's pleasure.


spain will invoke §155 of the Constitution

If a Self-governing Community does not fulfil the obligations imposed upon it by the Constitution or other laws, or acts in a way that is seriously prejudicial to the general interest of Spain, the Government, after having lodged a complaint with the President of the Self-governing Community and failed to receive satisfaction therefore, may, following approval granted by the overall majority of the Senate, take all measures necessary to compel the Community to meet said obligations, or to protect the abovementioned general interest.


so basically, goodbye Catalonian government. the only way forward for you is to do it american style. right now, it looks grim. but who knows, [b]maybe they've been importing ARs for years and hiding them from authorities. [/b]brings a tear to my eye thinking about all that freedom

either way, historical time


Who are they? Most Catalans and most Catalonian politicians are opposed to independence. Are you suggesting that a minority should impose their will on the majority? Is that your definition of freedom?


only 43.4% of people according to recent polls support unionist parties

also it wasn't until the monarchists started killing protesters in the street an enforcing acts that were named by the monarchists as "Coercive Acts" -- and by the Americans as the Intolerable Acts -- that popular sentiment swung in the favor of the revolutionaries. in the colonies at the time there were 15-20% loyalists, many of which ended up in the ashheap of history canada, and 40-45% were open patriots and perhaps a bare majority at some point. but even still it was only slightly more than of support for the pro-independence parties currently in catalans -- 42.5%. yes, it's slightly less than the unionists, but not by much. it can easily change over. and i'm pretty sure it's within margins of error

my point was that with no allies, no one in europe willing to recognize them, no one in the world i think other than scotland which is not even a real country ready to recognize them, the only way to win independence is to fight, as America did

as for the definition of freedom, 50.000000000001% putting their will on almost but not quite 50% of the people, that's cool, but if it's almost but not quite 50% putting their will on slightly over 50% that's totally not cool? frankly, many people just don't give a shit. neither unionist or independence parties (put together all of them) have majority support, so you can really it gets down to a number within 1% of who has the plurality lead. but f**k that, you want freedom? Johnny Joan, get your gun. but, alas, i don't think they have any, and this thing will be short lived, unless Spain goes all Franco on their asses
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Catalonian Independence

Postby Trogdon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:52 am

I guess this whole thing isn't as clear-cut or simple as it seemed at first.
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