Tax Reform

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Re: Tax Reform

Postby fstarcstar » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:20 pm

Saz wrote:
John Galt wrote:last time there was reform it took years. its complicated and should take compromise. you're only calling it shit because they are trying to ram through the latest iteration or whatever



its shit man.

grad student tax going to blow out STEM

Punitively targeting blue states

1.5 Trillion hole in the budget

There are dozens of other reasons but its still shit. Shareholders do not need a tax cut. The market is at record levels, companies are sitting on record levels of cash, debt has never been cheaper. This is just dumb.


The senate version should fix most of that, I don't think any house member wants to make grad students foot a higher bill. Deficits dont matter to people who don't believe the government should be that big or need that much revenue in the first place.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Saz » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:25 am

fstarcstar wrote:
Saz wrote:
John Galt wrote:last time there was reform it took years. its complicated and should take compromise. you're only calling it shit because they are trying to ram through the latest iteration or whatever



its shit man.

grad student tax going to blow out STEM

Punitively targeting blue states

1.5 Trillion hole in the budget

There are dozens of other reasons but its still shit. Shareholders do not need a tax cut. The market is at record levels, companies are sitting on record levels of cash, debt has never been cheaper. This is just dumb.


The senate version should fix most of that, I don't think any house member wants to make grad students foot a higher bill.
Deficits dont matter to people who don't believe the government should be that big or need that much revenue in the first place.


The senate version doesn’t fix any of that you dunce. They still eliminate SALT, tuition waivers still treated as income, the deficit is gone but so are huge potions of the tax savings - and the corporate portions are delayed. Read the WSJ this morning, there is a whole article about how the point of the changes is to screw universities and grad students. Wake up moron
Pun intended for the plebes on here who don't get a joke
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby fstarcstar » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:39 am

I didn’t know the senate plan came out late last night, and I assumed it would of been fixed. Calm down killa.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:21 am

It's entertaining watching the Senate basically flip the House off by totally eliminating SALT deductions. This must be their revenge for ACA repeal - I'm sure they're loving it. Those vulnerable seats in the House on the GOP are just f**k. Don't pass this - GOP has accomplished nothing. Pass this, GOP reps in high tax states will see absolutely no love.

Party has turned on itself. Amazing contrast to the unity we saw before 2010.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby ToddStarnes » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:17 pm

Well rallying behind their platform of "f**k that ethnic group member" during the obama years is a lot easier than governing.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby John Galt » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:54 pm

Kane wrote:It's entertaining watching the Senate basically flip the House off by totally eliminating SALT deductions. This must be their revenge for ACA repeal - I'm sure they're loving it. Those vulnerable seats in the House on the GOP are just f**k. Don't pass this - GOP has accomplished nothing. Pass this, GOP reps in high tax states will see absolutely no love.

Party has turned on itself. Amazing contrast to the unity we saw before 2010.


Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:15 pm

The Hill wrote:
McConnell 'misspoke' on claim that no one in middle class would get tax increase

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is walking back his claim that no middle class Americans will see a tax increase under the Senate GOP plan.

"I misspoke on that. You can't guarantee that absolutely no one sees a tax increase," McConnell told The New York Times on Friday.

McConnell added that "what we are doing is targeting levels of income and looking at the average in those levels and the average will be tax relief for the average taxpayer in each of those segments."


Senate Republicans unveiled their tax plan on Thursday. It includes several key provisions that break with the House, including eliminating the state and local tax deduction, a one-year delay in cutting the corporate tax rate and keeping the estate tax.

McConnell told conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt on MSNBC earlier this month, before the Senate GOP plan was unveiled, that "at the end of the day, nobody in the middle class is going to get a tax increase."

But a preliminary New York Times analysis of the Senate legislation found that while middle class Americans would do better under the proposal compared with the House bill, millions of middle-class families would still see their taxes go up.

A majority of middle class families would get a tax cut, according to the Times analysis, including a savings of $1,300 in 2018 and $1,700 in 2026 on average.

But a quarter of middle-class families would get a tax increase in 2018, on average by $1,000. By 2026, roughly one-third would see their taxes go up, by an average of $1,600.


The Senate's bill is likely to undergo changes before it comes up for a final vote. The Senate Finance Committee will start its markup on Monday.

And under the Senate's reconciliation rules — which allow Republicans to avoid a Democratic filibuster — lawmakers will need to go through a "vote-a-rama," an hours-long marathon where any senator can force a vote on an amendment to the tax plan.

Senate Finance Committee aides told The Washington Post that they would need to make adjustments to the legislation because it doesn't currently meet the requirement that it not add to the debt after 10 years.


Can't wait to see how well this goes down with various constituencies. This bill is going to be jammed through. Senate is marking it up next week and they hope to have it on Trump's desk by early December. It's going to pass - they have to get something done. Just wonder how all those suburban voters are going to feel about this.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby spacemonkey » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:06 pm

Spending reform is what they need.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Winchester » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:35 pm

spacemonkey wrote:Spending reform is what they need.


Where should we start? Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid or Military? That covers the bulk of it though interest is the next biggest wedge in the pie and there isn't much we can do about that.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:08 pm

This is just a modification proposal but it does solve the deficit issue past ten years under the Byrd rule....but damn. This would just look awful.

The Hill wrote:
Modified Senate tax bill would make individual cuts temporary, leave lower corporate rate permanent

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) released a modified version of the Senate tax bill late Tuesday that includes two key changes: the previously announced elimination of the ObamaCare individual insurance mandate and a sunsetting of individual tax rates in 2025.

The sunset clause in Hatch's "modified mark" would mean the new individual rates in the Senate bill would end 10 years after their creation.

This would solve a key problem in the Senate, which would have to prevent the overall tax bill from adding to the deficit after 10 years to make the new individual tax rates permanent — and use special budgetary rules to pass the package with a simple-majority vote and prevent Democrats from using a filibuster.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) released a modified version of the Senate tax bill late Tuesday that includes two key changes: the previously announced elimination of the ObamaCare individual insurance mandate and a sunsetting of individual tax rates in 2025.

The sunset clause in Hatch's "modified mark" would mean the new individual rates in the Senate bill would end 10 years after their creation.

This would solve a key problem in the Senate, which would have to prevent the overall tax bill from adding to the deficit after 10 years to make the new individual tax rates permanent — and use special budgetary rules to pass the package with a simple-majority vote and prevent Democrats from using a filibuster.

But the new individual rates, the larger standard deduction and child tax credit, the 17.4 percent deduction of income from pass-through businesses and the repeal of the individual alternative minimum tax would all be among the provisions that expire.

The end of the ObamaCare individual mandate would not sunset.


The modified mark would also allow 529 college savings plans to be used to save for unborn children in years before 2026. The House's tax bill has a similar provision, though it doesn't have a sunset date.

Hatch's modifications also include denying businesses a deduction for settlements related to sexual harassment or sexual abuse that involve nondisclosure agreements. This change comes amid a growing number of allegations against high-profile figures.

And the modified mark would reduce alcohol-related taxes. The alcohol industry has been pushing for changes in this area, and its efforts have garnered bipartisan support.

Members of Finance Committee will consider Hatch's modifications as part of the tax bill's markup, which is continuing Wednesday. Committee members have also filed hundreds of amendments, though not all of them will be debated during the markup.

The Finance Committee is expected to approve the tax bill by the end of the week, and the Senate is expected to consider the bill on the floor the week after Thanksgiving.

Separately, the House is expected to approve its own tax package on Thursday. Most of the tax cuts in the House bill do not sunset, though a $300 "family flexibility" credit would expire after five years.

Hatch said in a statement that by repealing the individual mandate "we not only ease the financial burdens already associated with the mandate, but also generate additional revenue to provide more tax relief to [middle-class] individuals."


This isn't reform anymore.
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