Tax Reform

The place for general political discussion.

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Saz » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:09 pm

phosphide wrote:
Winchester wrote:But it's not going to be a significant benefit to almost 70% of the country, they will see basically zero change.

That would be the case if they don't implement the child benefits but they won't be able to get rid of those. Political suicide.

Those in the $100k and up that are worker bees are the one's who will see tax increases and those in the $500k and up will get tax decreases.

As I said to Galt, I don't support the tax decrease for the uber wealthy.

And honestly my feelings towards the child tax credits are akin to your feelings on SALT and mortgages... don't get pissy with me just because you decided to have a litter.

I also agree that child tax credits shouldn't exist either.

But as John said, I'm okay with losing the SALT/itemized deductions even if it means a bit of a tax increase but not so those on the upper end get significant tax decreases.

I'm not opposed to that either.


Political suicide is a 7% tax hike on 100k-200k and taking away SALT. Who do you think puts republicans in power. They will suffer for this I promise.
Pun intended for the plebes on here who don't get a joke
User avatar
Saz
Governor
 
Posts: 8458
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:37 am
Location: Airstrip One
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 900 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Saz » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:12 pm

John Galt wrote:mmhmmm

i think that's the killer part of all of it. if the highest rate was slightly increased to 40% instead of drastically decreased to 35% it would have set a whole different tone

that said it could be negotiable to have a 4th bracket; it's stated in the propoganda put out about this. perhaps the republicans wanted to Art of the Deal™ it by giving up that concession later.

in canada they're talking about how poor pizza shop owners (i am not joking, it's literally called 'pizza-nomics') have to pay 73% under a new deal. 73%! and that's a raise from current 56%. 56! it's confiscatory


It should be 50 for the top bracket, and set it at $1+ million.
Pun intended for the plebes on here who don't get a joke
User avatar
Saz
Governor
 
Posts: 8458
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:37 am
Location: Airstrip One
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 900 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Tax Reform

Postby spacemonkey » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:22 am

A few have such absurd excess ,90% could be taken and they would still have absurd excess. Shows the state of greed in our finite world.
The hardest part of doing nothing is knowing when your done.
spacemonkey
Governor
 
Posts: 4839
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:54 am
Location: cyberspace
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 268 times

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:30 pm

Finite.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7315
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:42 pm

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... icy-center

Tax Policy Center ran what analyses they could based on available information and guess what?

Image


By contrast, the middle class (households earning $48,600 to $86,100 a year) would get $660 back, a 1.2 percent income boost. The poorest fifth of Americans, earning $25,000 or less, would only get $60, a 0.5 percent increase.

Both in raw dollar amounts, and percentage terms, the cuts are concentrated among the richest Americans.

About one in eight families, especially households earning low-to-mid six figures, would see taxes go up.

More than 40 percent of households earning between $216,800 and $307,900 (the 90th to 95th percentiles) would see a tax increase; the average tax hike would be nearly $3,000. That's largely a consequence of the proposal's decision to eliminate most itemized deductions and in particular the deduction for state and local taxes, which doesn't help ultra-rich households much, but does help rich but not super-rich families (particularly in high-tax states like New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, or California) considerably.

While the issue is less pronounced for the middle class, 13.5 percent of middle class households would see a tax increase, of about $1,000 on average:

Image



I'm actually excited to see how badly this blows up in their faces if any of this comes down.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7315
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Spider » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:11 pm

I don't think it would blow up in anyone's face. Some people may make noise, they always do, but frankly, we've been making the rich richer for decades with tax cuts and debt. It's the norm. Half the country is ideologically trained to believe in trickle down, even to their own detriment. They think if you give billionaires additional money, they'll use it to "create jobs!" like it's still the first half the 20th or something. People pulling down $40k are screaming about the truly poor not paying enough. I'm betting the average voter from the base that supports this sort of thing has just about no concept of how this works. If they pay $40 less, they'll call it progress, and vote Republican again next cycle.
Ernest Shackleton: "Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success."

Onward to Mars
User avatar
Spider
VIP
VIP
 
Posts: 11560
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Out in the sticks.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 857 times
Been thanked: 1020 times
Political Leaning: Anarcho Communist

Re: Tax Reform

Postby fstarcstar » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:21 pm

Anytime the average American sees that chart, it's why it always wins. That chart is for federal income tax only. Most people dont pay attention to any other tax than that. People need to do a better job of making charts and graphics showing the overall tax percentage paid from income tax, state tax, SS, medicare, sales, etc.

Trump already said he isnt touching entitlements and realistically those taxes are the only ones that would significantly impact the poor and middle class. It also would hurt them since they have risk/reward of those programs.
Image
User avatar
fstarcstar
Governor
 
Posts: 2400
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:47 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 126 times
Been thanked: 144 times

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:41 pm

I actually agree - more charts do need to be made that can show how regressive state taxes are compared the federal income tax. It's literally one of if the most progressive tax scheme in the country.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7315
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:33 am

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-e ... SKCN1C61EG

I don't understand why they so easily lie about one thing and then come out honest on their most important piece of legislation? It's like they want it to fail.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7315
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: Tax Reform

Postby John Galt » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:33 am

Kane wrote:I actually agree - more charts do need to be made that can show how regressive state taxes are compared the federal income tax. It's literally one of if the most progressive tax scheme in the country.


state income taxes aren't usually regressive, if they exist, but most everything else is. luxury taxes are good in theory but they do cause real problems for the producers of those goods, so they have been all scrapped in the US i think. what fstar was referring to was basically everything else. SS tax, medicare tax, gas tax, etc

taxation ought be prgressive but not too extreme. the laffer curve is something to be aware of -- rich people can move money much more readily than anyone else. the 90% rates of old are insanely high. a 50% top rate is not crazy and i think would go a long way to help fix the budget. the thing about the laffer curve is there is a point on it that is the most amount of revenue, and if the congress was concerned with that as opposed to just tax cuts for everyone so we can have all the cakes and and eat them all then we could have a real conversation trying to figure out that perfect sweet spot. taxes are so much lower and income distribution has widened so much that it's quite clear that we could raise top rates and increase tax revenue

this raising of revenue in turn could finance the infrastructure improvements we need, and a better healthcare system. we could even talk about UBI, something that will become more necessary to talk about once we can automate everything and have our AI slaves do the work for us and become even more decadent
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 12352
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 578 times
Been thanked: 1284 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest