On America

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On America

Postby exploited » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:49 am

"It has been said that the United States Government is a failure. I don't go so far. On the contrary, I consider it a marvelous exhibition of human wisdom. It was as perfect as human wisdom could make it, and under it the American States greatly prospered until very recently; but being the work of men it had its defects, and it is for us to take advantage by experience, and endeavor to see if we cannot arrive by careful study at such a plan as will avoid the mistakes of our neighbors. In the first place we know that every individual state was an individual sovereignty—that each had its own army and navy and political organization – and when they formed themselves into a confederation they only gave the central authority certain specific rights appertaining to sovereign powers. The dangers that have risen from this system we will avoid if we can agree upon forming a strong central government—a great Central Legislature—a constitution for a Union which will have all the rights of sovereignty except those that are given to the local governments. Then we shall have taken a great step in advance of the American Republic." -Sir John A. McDonald, September 12, 1864.
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Re: On America

Postby John Galt » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:29 am

so this random person no one has ever heard of bought into the Lost Cause myth and he was alive at the time?
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Re: On America

Postby exploited » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:34 pm

Not sure what the Lost Cause myth has to do with this. Sir McDonald doesn't excuse slavery (although he likely would, given how racist he was), he doesn't endorse Antebellum values, doesn't appear to consider Civil War as some sort of just cause, etc.

What this speaks to is the great failing of the Founding Fathers, who were wise and intelligent but ultimately short-sighted in a very damaging way. I thought it was interesting that the first Canadian PM had a similar grasp of the situation as I do. He even clearly lays out why our form of government is superior to the US system.

Another reason why I posted this is because how it seems relevant even now. Many of the issues facing your country exist for no other reason than the errors described above.
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Re: On America

Postby John Galt » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:19 am

exploited wrote:Not sure what the Lost Cause myth has to do with this. Sir McDonald doesn't excuse slavery (although he likely would, given how racist he was), he doesn't endorse Antebellum values, doesn't appear to consider Civil War as some sort of just cause, etc.

What this speaks to is the great failing of the Founding Fathers, who were wise and intelligent but ultimately short-sighted in a very damaging way. I thought it was interesting that the first Canadian PM had a similar grasp of the situation as I do. He even clearly lays out why our form of government is superior to the US system.

Another reason why I posted this is because how it seems relevant even now. Many of the issues facing your country exist for no other reason than the errors described above.


this no-name guy is blaming the it on state's rights, a central theme in the Lost Cause mythos here after the Fantasyland™ Civil War
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Re: On America

Postby exploited » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:54 am

John Galt wrote:
exploited wrote:Not sure what the Lost Cause myth has to do with this. Sir McDonald doesn't excuse slavery (although he likely would, given how racist he was), he doesn't endorse Antebellum values, doesn't appear to consider Civil War as some sort of just cause, etc.

What this speaks to is the great failing of the Founding Fathers, who were wise and intelligent but ultimately short-sighted in a very damaging way. I thought it was interesting that the first Canadian PM had a similar grasp of the situation as I do. He even clearly lays out why our form of government is superior to the US system.

Another reason why I posted this is because how it seems relevant even now. Many of the issues facing your country exist for no other reason than the errors described above.


this no-name guy is blaming the it on state's rights, a central theme in the Lost Cause mythos here after the Fantasyland™ Civil War


Yes, the form of government setup by the Founding Fathers was stupid and ignorant. Of course one can recognize that without advocating the Lost Cause myth. Just because you are butthurt doesn't make him incorrect Galt.
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Re: On America

Postby fstarcstar » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:34 am

exploited wrote:Not sure what the Lost Cause myth has to do with this. Sir McDonald doesn't excuse slavery (although he likely would, given how racist he was), he doesn't endorse Antebellum values, doesn't appear to consider Civil War as some sort of just cause, etc.

What this speaks to is the great failing of the Founding Fathers, who were wise and intelligent but ultimately short-sighted in a very damaging way. I thought it was interesting that the first Canadian PM had a similar grasp of the situation as I do. He even clearly lays out why our form of government is superior to the US system.

Another reason why I posted this is because how it seems relevant even now. Many of the issues facing your country exist for no other reason than the errors described above.


So you started a thread with a quote to state the Canada's government is better than the US? What is up for debate here?

There is nothing in that quote that wasn't already solved after the failures of the Articles of Confederation and the establishment of the US Constitution. Clearly the War of Northern Aggression (that's a joke for you Exploited since you don't understand anything) countered that issue when the southern states formed a confederacy.
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Re: On America

Postby Kane » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:37 am

fstarcstar wrote:
exploited wrote:Not sure what the Lost Cause myth has to do with this. Sir McDonald doesn't excuse slavery (although he likely would, given how racist he was), he doesn't endorse Antebellum values, doesn't appear to consider Civil War as some sort of just cause, etc.

What this speaks to is the great failing of the Founding Fathers, who were wise and intelligent but ultimately short-sighted in a very damaging way. I thought it was interesting that the first Canadian PM had a similar grasp of the situation as I do. He even clearly lays out why our form of government is superior to the US system.

Another reason why I posted this is because how it seems relevant even now. Many of the issues facing your country exist for no other reason than the errors described above.


So you started a thread with a quote to state the Canada's government is better than the US? What is up for debate here?

There is nothing in that quote that wasn't already solved after the failures of the Articles of Confederation and the establishment of the US Constitution. Clearly the War of Northern Aggression (that's a joke for you Exploited since you don't understand anything) countered that issue when the southern states formed a confederacy.


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Re: On America

Postby exploited » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:27 pm

fstarcstar wrote:
exploited wrote:Not sure what the Lost Cause myth has to do with this. Sir McDonald doesn't excuse slavery (although he likely would, given how racist he was), he doesn't endorse Antebellum values, doesn't appear to consider Civil War as some sort of just cause, etc.

What this speaks to is the great failing of the Founding Fathers, who were wise and intelligent but ultimately short-sighted in a very damaging way. I thought it was interesting that the first Canadian PM had a similar grasp of the situation as I do. He even clearly lays out why our form of government is superior to the US system.

Another reason why I posted this is because how it seems relevant even now. Many of the issues facing your country exist for no other reason than the errors described above.


So you started a thread with a quote to state the Canada's government is better than the US? What is up for debate here?

There is nothing in that quote that wasn't already solved after the failures of the Articles of Confederation and the establishment of the US Constitution. Clearly the War of Northern Aggression (that's a joke for you Exploited since you don't understand anything) countered that issue when the southern states formed a confederacy.


First you ask "what is up for debate," and then you immediately start debating the merits of the quote. Why? If you don't want to comment, even though you clearly do, you are not obliged to comment.

The US Constitution suffers from the exact failings described above. See the Tenth Amendment. So not exactly sure what you mean when you say these problems were solved. Further, the problems are still relevant.

For instance, it is currently impossible to setup a national electoral commission that standardizes voting rights, ballot design, access, etc. This has led to gerrymandering and numerous well-known failures, such as Florida's notorious 2000 ballot. In order to change this, a Constitutional amendment is required.

Similarly, the sovereignty of the States has led to numerous questionable SC rulings that were basically garbage, but required for the country to actually operate like a proper nation state. Consider the commerce clause and how it has been interpreted by the SC in a way that basically destroys it's very purpose, which is to limit the federal government's power to regulate commerce.

It is about time that Americans man up and start addressing these problems, which are systemic and extremely problematic. It took a SC ruling just to give Congress the power to prohibit child labour!

The only person here who seems to understand the scope of the problems is Galt, who has repeatedly called for a Constitutional Convention. Unfortunately the bulk of Americans, such as yourself, aren't capable of talking about this stuff without getting butthurt.
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Re: On America

Postby exploited » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:29 pm

Kane wrote:
fstarcstar wrote:
exploited wrote:Not sure what the Lost Cause myth has to do with this. Sir McDonald doesn't excuse slavery (although he likely would, given how racist he was), he doesn't endorse Antebellum values, doesn't appear to consider Civil War as some sort of just cause, etc.

What this speaks to is the great failing of the Founding Fathers, who were wise and intelligent but ultimately short-sighted in a very damaging way. I thought it was interesting that the first Canadian PM had a similar grasp of the situation as I do. He even clearly lays out why our form of government is superior to the US system.

Another reason why I posted this is because how it seems relevant even now. Many of the issues facing your country exist for no other reason than the errors described above.


So you started a thread with a quote to state the Canada's government is better than the US? What is up for debate here?

There is nothing in that quote that wasn't already solved after the failures of the Articles of Confederation and the establishment of the US Constitution. Clearly the War of Northern Aggression (that's a joke for you Exploited since you don't understand anything) countered that issue when the southern states formed a confederacy.


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When you find yourself clapping for fstar, you should probably think about the topic more, because the only way that is possible is ignorance.
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Re: On America

Postby Kane » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:53 pm

exploited wrote:
Kane wrote:
fstarcstar wrote:
exploited wrote:Not sure what the Lost Cause myth has to do with this. Sir McDonald doesn't excuse slavery (although he likely would, given how racist he was), he doesn't endorse Antebellum values, doesn't appear to consider Civil War as some sort of just cause, etc.

What this speaks to is the great failing of the Founding Fathers, who were wise and intelligent but ultimately short-sighted in a very damaging way. I thought it was interesting that the first Canadian PM had a similar grasp of the situation as I do. He even clearly lays out why our form of government is superior to the US system.

Another reason why I posted this is because how it seems relevant even now. Many of the issues facing your country exist for no other reason than the errors described above.


So you started a thread with a quote to state the Canada's government is better than the US? What is up for debate here?

There is nothing in that quote that wasn't already solved after the failures of the Articles of Confederation and the establishment of the US Constitution. Clearly the War of Northern Aggression (that's a joke for you Exploited since you don't understand anything) countered that issue when the southern states formed a confederacy.


Image


When you find yourself clapping for fstar, you should probably think about the topic more, because the only way that is possible is ignorance.


lol dude, that's a sarcastic clap. It's George sitting on a couch.

C'mon man.
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