American Health Care Act of 2017

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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby phosphide » Wed May 10, 2017 8:11 pm

exploited wrote:It is true, but as an idiot, you can't possibly be expected to conduct any actual research into the topic.

Grow up dude. It's getting old.
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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby exploited » Wed May 10, 2017 8:14 pm

phosphide wrote:
exploited wrote:It is true, but as an idiot, you can't possibly be expected to conduct any actual research into the topic.

Grow up dude. It's getting old.


*grows up*

Hm... you're still an idiot :(
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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby John Galt » Wed May 10, 2017 9:30 pm

phosphide wrote:
John Galt wrote:unhealthy people cost less though: they die sooner. we should encourage obesity if we want to be pragmatic and save money


For the last time this is not true.


phosphide wrote:
John Galt wrote:http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050029

Conclusions

Although effective obesity prevention leads to a decrease in costs of obesity-related diseases, this decrease is offset by cost increases due to diseases unrelated to obesity in life-years gained. Obesity prevention may be an important and cost-effective way of improving public health, but it is not a cure for increasing health expenditures.


That study was done on people in the Netherlands. On top of that, the results from this is completely useless because of course people who are healthier will live longer and accrue more costs in the long run. That's such a useless metric.


that's the bloody point
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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby Spider » Wed May 10, 2017 9:38 pm

phosphide wrote:
For the last time this is not true.


.....


On top of that, the results from this is completely useless because of course people who are healthier will live longer and accrue more costs in the long run.


Trying to reconcile these two sentences. Not working.
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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby John Galt » Wed May 10, 2017 9:51 pm

it depends on goals. if goals are to save money for everyone, we shouldn't give people benefits for being fit. 1. it costs everyone money if some people are given a discount for X reason, and 2. as an incentive it actually does the opposite of what the state goal was (to save money). if goals are to increase lifespan regardless of cost, that's a different conversation

ex smokers are the most anti-smokers there are, because they want to enjoy a cigarette so they will demand that no one else enjoy one near them. i fear this is what will become of us, if the same type of ex-fatties get their way. since they can't control themselves, they need everyone to suffer

this isn't to say being healthy isn't a good thing. it most certianly is. if you want to get your money's worth out of medical insurance, you should be healthy. but i don't care if people want to get fat and die, that's their deal

a coworker of mine adopted a premature baby from a meth addict. she told me the NICU cost was in the millions on paper, but she paid nothing. and got maternity leave! she didn't even have the baby. if you want to cut costs...
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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby Spider » Wed May 10, 2017 10:10 pm

John Galt wrote:
a coworker of mine adopted a premature baby from a meth addict. she told me the NICU cost was in the millions on paper, but she paid nothing. and got maternity leave! she didn't even have the baby. if you want to cut costs...


...let the premature babies die?

(Spider was born 9 weeks premature 30,000 feet above desolate Canadian wasteland. He is saddened by this.)

Is there some argument for foster parents being on the hook for someone else's childbirth costs since they adopted the kid?
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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby phosphide » Wed May 10, 2017 10:53 pm

Spider wrote:
phosphide wrote:
For the last time this is not true.


.....


On top of that, the results from this is completely useless because of course people who are healthier will live longer and accrue more costs in the long run.


Trying to reconcile these two sentences. Not working.


By the very nature of being alive for a long time, you accrue costs that will exceed someone who is unhealthy and dies earlier. That doesn't mean those who are unhealthy and die earlier are cheaper. That's what is not true. It's a very poor comparison to make and ultimately distracts from the challenges associated with population health. Particularly that 80% of our costs every year are because of chronic diseases and that 50% of this country has a chronic disease.
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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby Spider » Thu May 11, 2017 12:13 am

But...your claim runs counter to the data Galt provided. The vast bulk of healthcare costs are end of life related. Doesn't seem to me that half the country being fatasses, a great many morbidly so, is resulting in crazy, out of line healthcare during the 30's and 40's. Most people, even fat people, are generally in decent in enough health until they start getting old. Logically, if the fatties are dying younger, how are they throwing off that insane curve in end of life care? I mean...they're already dead.

Lots of fat people, lots of old people...not a lot of fat old people.

I don't think it's necessarily the fatness that's causing such crazy high diabetes and heart disease rates...its good old fashioned shitty diet and sedentary lifestyle. People don't need to develop an eating disorder and become morbidly obese to suffer the cumulative effects of this. A normal weight dude who spent his life pumping himself full of butter and sugar while spending 16 hours a day seated and the other 8 asleep is still unhealthy as hell. He just survives into old age to suffer the ill effects at a later date than his 400 lb buddy who blew his heart up at age 49 while sitting on the toilet for his morning triple flush, thus costing the system nothing in the later half of his life.
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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby Saz » Thu May 11, 2017 3:20 am

This thread inspired me to max out my healthcare to the fullest extent possible. Also have a very cute doctor so thanks guys! Wish me luck
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Re: American Health Care Act of 2017

Postby John Galt » Thu May 11, 2017 8:51 am

Saz wrote:This thread inspired me to max out my healthcare to the fullest extent possible. Also have a very cute doctor so thanks guys! Wish me luck


good luck for when he gives you a prostate exam
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