A carbon VAT

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A carbon VAT

Postby Supposn » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:55 pm

A value-added tax on carbon; a carbon VAT:

It’s feasible to value-added tax, (i.e. VAT) “carbon fuels”. I believe that’s the most feasible method of taxing carbon emissions among a nation’s population and its enterprises. We can tax all legally described products that we’ve objectively determine have substantial proportions of petroleum or coal integral to them by a flat percentage of the products' values.
Many people contend taxes upon sales rather than incomes are much greater burdens upon the poor.

[Commercial enterprises pass on all their normal expenditures onto their customers. Passing on “abnormal” expenses not experienced by their competitors would place them at competitive disadvantage. Exon passes on extraordinarily high penalties for pollution. Even when their legal costs and the costs of appeals are applied to penalties for their own wrong doing, they’re permitted to reduce their taxable incomes by deducting their legal costs as ordinary business expenses and the penalties themselves are such a tiny portion of their gross revenues].

The carbon value taxes would discourage our nation’s consumption of carbon fuels; but its revenue could be dedicated to augment the FICA revenue which is dedicated for purposes that are (proportional to incomes), of greater benefit to the lowest income wage earners and their dependents.

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Re: A carbon VAT

Postby Saz » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:24 am

To what end? It would be no harder to avoid than corporate taxation and the brunt of it would fall on the poor. Relentlessly and deliberately driving up prices in a given market is insanity. You should focus on dropping prices in greener substitute industries.
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Re: A carbon VAT

Postby Supposn » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:10 am

Excerpted from:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/opin ... &te=1&_r=0

President Trump brandished executive pen and fresh hyperbole last week in blessing the coal industry’s decades-old practice of freely dumping tons of debris into the streams and mountain hollows of America’s mining communities.

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Re: A carbon VAT

Postby Supposn » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:31 am

Saz wrote:To what end? It would be no harder to avoid than corporate taxation and the brunt of it would fall on the poor. Relentlessly and deliberately driving up prices in a given market is insanity. You should focus on dropping prices in greener substitute industries.


Saz, you’re proposing governments should subsidize particular products?

I proposed federal taxing particular products that beyond their cost to the products purchasers and users, are of additional cost and detriment to our entire nation, (if not our entire globe).
The carbon value taxes would discourage our nation’s consumption of carbon fuels; but its revenue could be dedicated to augment the FICA revenue which is dedicated for purposes that are (proportional to incomes), of greater benefit to the lowest income wage earners and their dependents.

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Re: A carbon VAT

Postby Supposn » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:37 pm

Saz wrote:[Regarding a proposed VAT upon carbon products] "To what end, ? It would be no harder to avoid than corporate taxation and the brunt of it would fall on the poor". ...


Saz, I don’t know what your experiences have been regarding governments’ sales taxes and their tax departments relationship to commercial enterprises within their jurisdictions. No doubt that USA consumers can more easily induce the waiving of their state’s sales tax. (This is particularly true because U.S. states do not use the VAT method of sales tax administration). But that doesn’t indicate the extent of aggregate sellers’ swallowing a good portions of that tax revenues and reducing their profit margins.
I know that the state of NY and their cities do recover a good portion of such sales tax evasion attempts and they do not use a VAT system. American’s commonly believe that whatever’s THEIR usual practice or the practices within THEIR locality or THEIR industry or THEIR nation must be superior because THEY do it; it ain’t necessarily so.

VAT’s the superior method for administrating a general sales tax. The VAT explicitly levied within any single link of transactions includes the entire VAT revenue levied thus far within the chain of commercial transactions. There are no VATs levied upon VATs previously paid by others. Vats administration, compliance, and enforcement are of lesser cost, more efficient and effective than all prior conventional sales tax methods.

Sales tax revenues rather than revenues from taxing corporate net incomes are less rather than more vulnerable to losses due to fraud. This would be particularly true of the U.S. IRS collecting VATs and having their existing data bases of information use to administrate and enforce corporate and individual taxes upon net incomes.

The carbon value taxes would discourage our nation’s consumption of carbon fuels; but its revenue could be dedicated to augment the FICA revenue which is dedicated for purposes that are (proportional to incomes), of greater benefit to the lowest income wage earners and their dependents.

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Re: A carbon VAT

Postby spacemonkey » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:08 pm

Internal combustion will be mostly replaced by electric eventually. It won't be overnight, and we don't want to kill ourselves making the change either. A freezing man will burn whatever will burn to keep from freezing, and take whatever he has running to get to work. Our problem is we want to much to fast.
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Re: A carbon VAT

Postby Supposn » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:04 pm

spacemonkey wrote:Internal combustion will be mostly replaced by electric eventually. It won't be overnight, and we don't want to kill ourselves making the change either. A freezing man will burn whatever will burn to keep from freezing, and take whatever he has running to get to work. Our problem is we want to much to fast.


SpaceMonkey, we’re not limiting reduction of carbon pollution only to vehicles. Gas, petroleum, or coal generates significant proportions of USA’s electric power. Those fuels would all be subject to the carbon VAT. The carbon VAT would hasten our reduction of carbon air pollutents.

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Re: A carbon VAT

Postby spacemonkey » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:19 pm

Supposn wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:Internal combustion will be mostly replaced by electric eventually. It won't be overnight, and we don't want to kill ourselves making the change either. A freezing man will burn whatever will burn to keep from freezing, and take whatever he has running to get to work. Our problem is we want to much to fast.


SpaceMonkey, we’re not limiting reduction of carbon pollution only to vehicles. Gas, petroleum, or coal generates significant proportions of USA’s electric power. Those fuels would all be subject to the carbon VAT. The carbon VAT would hasten our reduction of carbon air pollutents.

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It would also make energy cost skyrocket, adding to the cost of everything.
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Re: A carbon VAT

Postby Supposn » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:11 am

spacemonkey wrote:It would also make energy cost skyrocket, adding to the cost of everything.


SpaceMonkey, how did you determine that a carbon VAT of a not yet specified rate upon not yet specified high carbon products would “make energy cost and everything else skyrocket”?

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Re: A carbon VAT

Postby spacemonkey » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:47 pm

Supposn wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:It would also make energy cost skyrocket, adding to the cost of everything.


SpaceMonkey, how did you determine that a carbon VAT of a not yet specified rate upon not yet specified high carbon products would “make energy cost and everything else skyrocket”?

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The rate would determine how high the skyrocket would go. And we both know how greedy some can get, especially in big pharma.
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