Twitter Wars

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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby exploited » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:36 pm

Probably the single most convincing thing I've seen so far in terms of making me scared about Trumps authoritarianism.
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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby John Galt » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:53 am

exploited wrote:Probably the single most convincing thing I've seen so far in terms of making me scared about Trumps authoritarianism.


Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby ToddStarnes » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:45 am

Winchester wrote:
ToddStarnes wrote:
Spider wrote:Can't really blame that on the NRA. Tell people they aren't going to be able to get *anything* anymore, and that thing will fly off the shelves. That phenomenon has been going on for years. Trouble with all the talk of banning guns is that it would require a constitutional amendment, which is basically an impossibility (for now), and so the talk really is repeatedly pumping sales, over and over again. They actually did carry out the AWB. People aren't going to forget that. They banned a type of gun that previously had been a trivial percentage of the market, but has now been catapulted to best-seller status.

Unless there is something realistic and effectual in the pipes, it's grandstanding. We can't even get bump stocks off the market now. They've gone from being a rarely seen, silly accessory to sell out stocking stuffer. :))


(1) see exploited's post.

(2) you highlight another neat trick. Now, because the NRA has so thoroughly minded the admittedly malleable minds of gun owners, we can't even talk about gun control without these obstinate hillbillies stocking up and flooding the market even more.

It's beautiful really. Bravo.


Hillbilly's don't flood the market, they hold on to the guns they buy.

Also, no, while the NRA might very well influence voters and congressmen on gun legislation, they really don't drive the panic buying, the legislation and threat of legislation does. The 1994 AWB did more to proliferate guns than any single piece of gun legislation ever. The biggest mistake with it was putting in a 10 year expiration on it. I'd be willing to bet with each round of mass shootings there is a spike in sales because people are worried this is the one that's going to do it and reinstate the ban.

Thus highlighting again your second neat trick. If one desires to ban guns, one is responsible for proliferation, so sayeth Winchester and spider (parroting their NRA overlords no doubt).

Rednecks are constantly buying and selling guns. Don't make stuff up.
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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby Winchester » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:42 am

ToddStarnes wrote:
Winchester wrote:
ToddStarnes wrote:
Spider wrote:Can't really blame that on the NRA. Tell people they aren't going to be able to get *anything* anymore, and that thing will fly off the shelves. That phenomenon has been going on for years. Trouble with all the talk of banning guns is that it would require a constitutional amendment, which is basically an impossibility (for now), and so the talk really is repeatedly pumping sales, over and over again. They actually did carry out the AWB. People aren't going to forget that. They banned a type of gun that previously had been a trivial percentage of the market, but has now been catapulted to best-seller status.

Unless there is something realistic and effectual in the pipes, it's grandstanding. We can't even get bump stocks off the market now. They've gone from being a rarely seen, silly accessory to sell out stocking stuffer. :))


(1) see exploited's post.

(2) you highlight another neat trick. Now, because the NRA has so thoroughly minded the admittedly malleable minds of gun owners, we can't even talk about gun control without these obstinate hillbillies stocking up and flooding the market even more.

It's beautiful really. Bravo.


Hillbilly's don't flood the market, they hold on to the guns they buy.

Also, no, while the NRA might very well influence voters and congressmen on gun legislation, they really don't drive the panic buying, the legislation and threat of legislation does. The 1994 AWB did more to proliferate guns than any single piece of gun legislation ever. The biggest mistake with it was putting in a 10 year expiration on it. I'd be willing to bet with each round of mass shootings there is a spike in sales because people are worried this is the one that's going to do it and reinstate the ban.

Thus highlighting again your second neat trick. If one desires to ban guns, one is responsible for proliferation, so sayeth Winchester and spider (parroting their NRA overlords no doubt).

Rednecks are constantly buying and selling guns. Don't make stuff up.


There is a small percentage that buys and sells, vast majority buy, hold and pass down or possibly trade at a licensed gun shop. I'm also not a member of the NRA though I do support their original purpose.

Go ahead and close your eyes what the banning and the threat of banning does to sales. The question is can those who want to ban actually get it done, if it's going to take the bans must be permanent, having a 10 year expiration date was a disaster. If you are going to defeat your enemy you better understand them first. But by all means continue to label them hicks, rednecks, nuts, question their manliness rather than understand what motivates them and lord knows might even be able to open a dialog and find common ground on a lot of issues related to guns and gun control. The former tactic worked so well for Hillary last go round.
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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby ToddStarnes » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:30 am

What dialogue could be had? Serious question. This is a demographic that reacts to the murder of a few dozen elementary school kids by stocking up on the tool used for the murder. The same demographic who is stocking up on bump stocks in reaction to their use to slaughter dozens in Las Vegas.

How does this dialogue go, exactly?
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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby Saz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:31 am

Winchester wrote:
ToddStarnes wrote:
Winchester wrote:
ToddStarnes wrote:
Spider wrote:Can't really blame that on the NRA. Tell people they aren't going to be able to get *anything* anymore, and that thing will fly off the shelves. That phenomenon has been going on for years. Trouble with all the talk of banning guns is that it would require a constitutional amendment, which is basically an impossibility (for now), and so the talk really is repeatedly pumping sales, over and over again. They actually did carry out the AWB. People aren't going to forget that. They banned a type of gun that previously had been a trivial percentage of the market, but has now been catapulted to best-seller status.

Unless there is something realistic and effectual in the pipes, it's grandstanding. We can't even get bump stocks off the market now. They've gone from being a rarely seen, silly accessory to sell out stocking stuffer. :))


(1) see exploited's post.

(2) you highlight another neat trick. Now, because the NRA has so thoroughly minded the admittedly malleable minds of gun owners, we can't even talk about gun control without these obstinate hillbillies stocking up and flooding the market even more.

It's beautiful really. Bravo.


Hillbilly's don't flood the market, they hold on to the guns they buy.

Also, no, while the NRA might very well influence voters and congressmen on gun legislation, they really don't drive the panic buying, the legislation and threat of legislation does. The 1994 AWB did more to proliferate guns than any single piece of gun legislation ever. The biggest mistake with it was putting in a 10 year expiration on it. I'd be willing to bet with each round of mass shootings there is a spike in sales because people are worried this is the one that's going to do it and reinstate the ban.

Thus highlighting again your second neat trick. If one desires to ban guns, one is responsible for proliferation, so sayeth Winchester and spider (parroting their NRA overlords no doubt).

Rednecks are constantly buying and selling guns. Don't make stuff up.


There is a small percentage that buys and sells, vast majority buy, hold and pass down or possibly trade at a licensed gun shop. I'm also not a member of the NRA though I do support their original purpose.

Go ahead and close your eyes what the banning and the threat of banning does to sales. The question is can those who want to ban actually get it done, if it's going to take the bans must be permanent, having a 10 year expiration date was a disaster. If you are going to defeat your enemy you better understand them first. But by all means continue to label them hicks, rednecks, nuts, question their manliness rather than understand what motivates them and lord knows might even be able to open a dialog and find common ground on a lot of issues related to guns and gun control. The former tactic worked so well for Hillary last go round.


Funny enough this isn't really as political as it seems. The right court can simply reinterpret and effectively create a ban. You have no idea how close that was to happening, if the dems had their shit together it would be over already.
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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby Saz » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:33 am

ToddStarnes wrote:What dialogue could be had? Serious question. This is a demographic that reacts to the murder of a few dozen elementary school kids by stocking up on the tool used for the murder. The same demographic who is stocking up on bump stocks in reaction to their use to slaughter dozens in Las Vegas.

How does this dialogue go, exactly?


"Fine. You can have the Sudetenland but nothing else, agreed?"

"Ja, Ja, agreed"
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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby spacemonkey » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:06 pm

They don't follow the gun laws they already have, adding more will help how??
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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby Spider » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:35 pm

ToddStarnes wrote:Thus highlighting again your second neat trick. If one desires to ban guns, one is responsible for proliferation, so sayeth Winchester and spider (parroting their NRA overlords no doubt).

Rednecks are constantly buying and selling guns. Don't make stuff up.


If you've got an argument, make it. Don't just repeat childishly ignorant and repeatedly debunked nonsense.

Anyways, f**k the NRA, man. Seriously. Couldn't care less about those lunatics. This is about people doing predictable people things. If you need some sort of a boogie man to soak this up for you, find one elsewhere. It's like talking to creationists who think evolution wasn't even a thing until Richard Dawkins started scratching out shitty books...and so it's Dawkins this or Dawkins that. Look deeper and broader. I'm a life long gun owner who's never had even a second's patience for the NRA. They aren't a hive mind controlling half the country. They have actually been in decline in terms of membership and dues for a long time. Eventually, critical mass will be reached and their lobby won't matter much, either. That's actually the end game in terms of the gun debate, IMO. Every year, there are fewer people interested. Fewer people hunting. Fewer people involved in things like the NRA. Eventually...they just won't be able to generate as much pull...and then the serious reforms will begin. Will take time, but it's going to happen. I grew up thinking of guns as sporting implements to shoot at deer and ducks with. Kids today, increasingly, are growing up thinking of guns in terms of Vegas or that church in Texas. Things are changing.

I'm not telling you what to do or what to say. I'm not even suggesting anything policy related. I'm merely observing a really obvious phenomenon that's been repeated so many times and observed for so long that it's flatly irrational to ignore it. It's not a trick...it's a tally of gun sales compared to a timeline of events.

Make of it what you will.
Ernest Shackleton: "Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success."

Onward to Mars
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Re: Twitter Wars

Postby ToddStarnes » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:35 pm

I agree with your conclusion - that the current gun culture precludes any meaningful action. That's why I'm so curious what dialogue Winchester thinks could be had.

You too easily let the NRA off the hook. Their constant fear mongering about gun grabs during the Obama years pushed gun sales to unbelievable heights. And its already inconsequential in terms of membership, yet remains one of the most influential lobbies today.
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