We're so f*cked

The place for general political discussion.

It's been a year, did Trump Co work with the Russians?

Yes - I read fake news
3
100%
No - I am a Trumpbot and lack any critical thinking skills
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 3

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Spider » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:14 pm

John Galt wrote:GWB gave a political speech, one of his few since retiring, today. called white supremacy blasphemy against the american creed. i felt like this speech was him just expanding on his "i'm a uniter not a divider" quote; it was all about how bad politics has become

GDubs wrote:Bullying and prejudice in our public life sets a national tone, provides permission for cruelty and bigotry, and compromises the moral education of children; the only way to pass along civic values is to first live up to them


TRUMP wrote:Every time I speak of the haters and losers I do so with great love and affection. They cannot help the fact that they were born f**k up!


I never thought Dubya would come out on the bright side of an intellectual contrast.
Ernest Shackleton: "Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success."

Onward to Mars
User avatar
Spider
VIP
VIP
 
Posts: 11555
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Out in the sticks.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 857 times
Been thanked: 1020 times
Political Leaning: Anarcho Communist

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Kane » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:07 pm

Truly the end is nigh.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7314
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby John Galt » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:59 pm

Bush is not a dumb guy by any stretch, he just takes liberties with the English language. el oh el he said something in a way that is funny because of how he speaks lmao. Trump on the other hand takes liberties with the truth constantly to the point of which I think he truly believes, if you think it it is true, and if more people think it it becomes even more true
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 12350
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 578 times
Been thanked: 1284 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby NAB » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:53 pm

Spider wrote:
John Galt wrote:
Sarah Sanders said in today's White House press briefing that Chief of Staff Gen. John Kelly is "disgusted and frustrated" by the way his son's death has become politicized.


uh... did he take this up with the man who politicized his son's death? He works for him. he's the one that brought it up

walk away Kelly


Kelly is a hollowed out shell of a man. He's dead inside.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/19/politics/john-kelly-donald-trump-niger-family-calls/index.html?adkey=bn


Thought on Kelly's misstep here: while it's fine to point out political motivations and "possibly" Trump didn't intend for it to come out the way it did, but he didn't bother to refer to the wife of the soldier who did think it was ill intentioned. Jesus, he should know better, at least apologize to her stating it could have been a misunderstanding and he's sorry for her loss. Another thing about Wilson that's being overlooked because she's being accused of political grandstanding, and that's she was probably in mourning herself over this loss. She mentored this kid and knew him personally from a young age. She was in that car as a friend to the family because they wanted her there. She wasn't just tagging along hoping to catch Trump in a gotcha moment. He's a walking gotcha moment so you don't even have to try and set him up.

Kelly also confirmed Trump said it even though Trump denied it, so there's always the f**k lying which is SOP from that cocksucker.
Welcome to our speak board web page

These users thanked the author NAB for the post (total 2):
KaneSpider
User avatar
NAB
Governor
 
Posts: 7584
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:27 am
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 1080 times

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Kane » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:17 am

John Galt wrote:Bush is not a dumb guy by any stretch, he just takes liberties with the English language. el oh el he said something in a way that is funny because of how he speaks lmao. Trump on the other hand takes liberties with the truth constantly to the point of which I think he truly believes, if you think it it is true, and if more people think it it becomes even more true


Bush embraced PNAC and invaded Iraq with the intention of occupying it to "spread democracy." It is one of the if not the worst foreign strategic blunder in the history of this nation.

I think it's fair to question his intelligence without having to look at his diction.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7314
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby John Galt » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:24 am

Kane wrote:
John Galt wrote:Bush is not a dumb guy by any stretch, he just takes liberties with the English language. el oh el he said something in a way that is funny because of how he speaks lmao. Trump on the other hand takes liberties with the truth constantly to the point of which I think he truly believes, if you think it it is true, and if more people think it it becomes even more true


Bush embraced PNAC and invaded Iraq with the intention of occupying it to "spread democracy." It is one of the if not the worst foreign strategic blunder in the history of this nation.

I think it's fair to question his intelligence without having to look at his diction.


smart people can be wrong. and there were smarter people than Bush behind all of that too.

i mean, it worked for germany and japan. japan especially, as we remade her in our own image. i'm not saying there weren't mistakes (tentacle porn) but it did come out quite well
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 12350
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 578 times
Been thanked: 1284 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Kane » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:55 am

John Galt wrote:
Kane wrote:
John Galt wrote:Bush is not a dumb guy by any stretch, he just takes liberties with the English language. el oh el he said something in a way that is funny because of how he speaks lmao. Trump on the other hand takes liberties with the truth constantly to the point of which I think he truly believes, if you think it it is true, and if more people think it it becomes even more true


Bush embraced PNAC and invaded Iraq with the intention of occupying it to "spread democracy." It is one of the if not the worst foreign strategic blunder in the history of this nation.

I think it's fair to question his intelligence without having to look at his diction.


smart people can be wrong. and there were smarter people than Bush behind all of that too.


So? He still made the call. Yes, smart people can be wrong but if you're about to invade and occupy a nation you should really do your homework. It sincerely doesn't feel like he did. All of his grand gestures and proclamations were continuously off the mark. And now Iraq is more or less controlled by Shiite clerics aligned with Iran.

John Galt wrote:i mean, it worked for germany and japan. japan especially, as we remade her in our own image. i'm not saying there weren't mistakes (tentacle porn) but it did come out quite well


Don't forget South Korea! But how divided were those countries? Japan was already essentially an island making things more homogeneous, Germany had no choice as it was swept under the umbrella of the USSR, and South Korea as we know it today is literally a peninsula that has a DMZ to the north.

How many borders does Iraq share? What are the comparable differences in sect in Iraq v. Germany/Japan/South Korea? What kind of governments surround it? Etc.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7314
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Kane » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:15 pm

I will say listening to the GWB was refreshing merely because he sounded like a real person that could formulate sentences with relative eloquence to that of Trump.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7314
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Spider » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:46 pm

It's like the difference between listening to Dubya and Obama...only inverse.
Ernest Shackleton: "Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success."

Onward to Mars
User avatar
Spider
VIP
VIP
 
Posts: 11555
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Out in the sticks.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 857 times
Been thanked: 1020 times
Political Leaning: Anarcho Communist

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby exploited » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Kane wrote:
John Galt wrote:
Kane wrote:
John Galt wrote:Bush is not a dumb guy by any stretch, he just takes liberties with the English language. el oh el he said something in a way that is funny because of how he speaks lmao. Trump on the other hand takes liberties with the truth constantly to the point of which I think he truly believes, if you think it it is true, and if more people think it it becomes even more true


Bush embraced PNAC and invaded Iraq with the intention of occupying it to "spread democracy." It is one of the if not the worst foreign strategic blunder in the history of this nation.

I think it's fair to question his intelligence without having to look at his diction.


smart people can be wrong. and there were smarter people than Bush behind all of that too.


So? He still made the call. Yes, smart people can be wrong but if you're about to invade and occupy a nation you should really do your homework. It sincerely doesn't feel like he did. All of his grand gestures and proclamations were continuously off the mark. And now Iraq is more or less controlled by Shiite clerics aligned with Iran.

John Galt wrote:i mean, it worked for germany and japan. japan especially, as we remade her in our own image. i'm not saying there weren't mistakes (tentacle porn) but it did come out quite well


Don't forget South Korea! But how divided were those countries? Japan was already essentially an island making things more homogeneous, Germany had no choice as it was swept under the umbrella of the USSR, and South Korea as we know it today is literally a peninsula that has a DMZ to the north.

How many borders does Iraq share? What are the comparable differences in sect in Iraq v. Germany/Japan/South Korea? What kind of governments surround it? Etc.


I'm not really sure what Galt is on about here, because the occupations of Germany and Japan were fundamentally different than the occupation of Iraq or Afghanistan. More than that, the differences came down precisely to the choices made by the Bush Administration.

In Germany and Japan, the Allies sent over thousands of civil administrators. Police, judges, bureaucrats, infrastructure and city planners, etc. We did this so that the newly formed governments would not be infiltrated and destabilized by members of the past regime. And by bringing in those folks, we ensured that corruption, graft and partisanship were not major players in the post-war years - well, they were, but they weren't perceived that way.

We also did not rush the transfer of sovereignty. It was widely understood that the occupation and administration of those countries would last as long as it damn well needed too, and that nothing less than total acceptance of this new reality would suffice before we handed off control.

As for the sheer number of occupying forces... In Afghanistan and Iraq, control of rural areas and even major cities was always tenuous. In Germany and Japan, that was never the case - it was overwhelming force applied consistently throughout the country. There was never an opportunity for resistance, looting or civil disorder to develop. If you did something like that, you were either shot on site, or you were immediately incarcerated without trial for however goddamn long the occupiers pleased.

You can occupy a country and change it. You can create a stable government afterwards. But the decisions made by the Bush Administration were terrible, and defied all of the lessons learned over centuries of nation building. First you must break the country. You must make them realize that you will never leave until you are satisfied, and that no amount of force would ever change that. Then you would remake the institutions in your image. Sure, we let the Emperor stay, but only as a figurehead, as a way of maintaining the pride and heritage of the Japanese people.

Bush and Co. did a wonderful job of winning the initial occupation with a minimum of forces. But after that, especially in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan, restoring infrastructure and civil order was key. Training their military forces were key. Remaking their institutions was key. Breaking the spirit of the opposition was key. None of those things happened, and they didn't happen because of choices made by the Administration.
User avatar
exploited
Vice President
 
Posts: 20965
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:32 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 2197 times
Been thanked: 1702 times

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron