Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby Thor » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:14 pm

Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:Donald Trump is the best thing to happen in American politics since the Buchanan Brigade. Trump, all by himself, is shifting the Overton Window in the U.S. rightward like no other right wing figure has in at least the last 30 or 40 years. Who, before Trump, was seriously talking about immigration reform other than vague lipservice about maybe securing the border one day and pushing amnesty? Now that Trump has laid out serious and real immigration reform every candidate is forced to take a stand.

So it doesn't matter if Trump is trolling us or not, the effect he is having is real.


Link to the real and serious reform proposals he has laid out?

So far he's just spouting vague phrases tailored to appeal to mouthbreathers. He hasn't actually produced anything of any specificity or detail.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/ ... ion-reform
^The single best immigration plan I've seen in a long, long time.
In announcing his decision to run for President on Tuesday, Trump said he would call “the head of Ford, who I know” and tell him: “Let me give you the bad news: every car, every truck and every part manufactured in this plant that comes across the border, we’re going to charge you a $35 tax—OK?—and that tax is going to be paid simultaneously with the transaction.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaesteve ... der-nafta/

Trump has been very vocal about opposing the current trade deals. As it is, 9/10 times I feel like the calls for Trump to be specific is just trolling. Seriously, what candidate has laid out anything highly specific at this point? Name 3 specific policy proposals form Rubio, Jeb!, Cruz, Hillary, Graham, Christie, Kaisch, Pataki, etc. All I hear from anyone at this point is a bunch of meaningless slogans and vague talk of "American exceptionalism."
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.
-William Ernest Henley
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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby Spider » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:17 pm

Thor wrote:
Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:Donald Trump is the best thing to happen in American politics since the Buchanan Brigade. Trump, all by himself, is shifting the Overton Window in the U.S. rightward like no other right wing figure has in at least the last 30 or 40 years. Who, before Trump, was seriously talking about immigration reform other than vague lipservice about maybe securing the border one day and pushing amnesty? Now that Trump has laid out serious and real immigration reform every candidate is forced to take a stand.

So it doesn't matter if Trump is trolling us or not, the effect he is having is real.


Link to the real and serious reform proposals he has laid out?

So far he's just spouting vague phrases tailored to appeal to mouthbreathers. He hasn't actually produced anything of any specificity or detail.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/ ... ion-reform
^The single best immigration plan I've seen in a long, long time.
In announcing his decision to run for President on Tuesday, Trump said he would call “the head of Ford, who I know” and tell him: “Let me give you the bad news: every car, every truck and every part manufactured in this plant that comes across the border, we’re going to charge you a $35 tax—OK?—and that tax is going to be paid simultaneously with the transaction.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaesteve ... der-nafta/

Trump has been very vocal about opposing the current trade deals. As it is, 9/10 times I feel like the calls for Trump to be specific is just trolling. Seriously, what candidate has laid out anything highly specific at this point? Name 3 specific policy proposals form Rubio, Jeb!, Cruz, Hillary, Graham, Christie, Kaisch, Pataki, etc. All I hear from anyone at this point is a bunch of meaningless slogans and vague talk of "American exceptionalism."


Well...that pretty much makes my point. Basically, Trump is preying on small minded people suffering from irrational xenophobia and racism by beating the fear and loathing drums. Make people afraid of "the Other". Divide people against their neighbors. Foment mistrust and hate. Its a tactic as old as it gets.

That's not an immigration plan...its basically a long-winded post from Stormfront. A wall? Seriously? L-)
Ernest Shackleton: "Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success."

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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby Kane » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:16 pm

Thor wrote:
Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:Donald Trump is the best thing to happen in American politics since the Buchanan Brigade. Trump, all by himself, is shifting the Overton Window in the U.S. rightward like no other right wing figure has in at least the last 30 or 40 years. Who, before Trump, was seriously talking about immigration reform other than vague lipservice about maybe securing the border one day and pushing amnesty? Now that Trump has laid out serious and real immigration reform every candidate is forced to take a stand.

So it doesn't matter if Trump is trolling us or not, the effect he is having is real.


Link to the real and serious reform proposals he has laid out?

So far he's just spouting vague phrases tailored to appeal to mouthbreathers. He hasn't actually produced anything of any specificity or detail.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/ ... ion-reform
^The single best immigration plan I've seen in a long, long time.
In announcing his decision to run for President on Tuesday, Trump said he would call “the head of Ford, who I know” and tell him: “Let me give you the bad news: every car, every truck and every part manufactured in this plant that comes across the border, we’re going to charge you a $35 tax—OK?—and that tax is going to be paid simultaneously with the transaction.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaesteve ... der-nafta/

Trump has been very vocal about opposing the current trade deals. As it is, 9/10 times I feel like the calls for Trump to be specific is just trolling. Seriously, what candidate has laid out anything highly specific at this point? Name 3 specific policy proposals form Rubio, Jeb!, Cruz, Hillary, Graham, Christie, Kaisch, Pataki, etc. All I hear from anyone at this point is a bunch of meaningless slogans and vague talk of "American exceptionalism."


So Trump wants to ignore the theory behind opportunity costs, increase the cost of making US cars, and thus ruin the US auto industry by hurting their competitiveness globally while making them less affordable at home.

Good job Trump.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby NAB » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:30 am

Kane wrote:
Thor wrote:
Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:Donald Trump is the best thing to happen in American politics since the Buchanan Brigade. Trump, all by himself, is shifting the Overton Window in the U.S. rightward like no other right wing figure has in at least the last 30 or 40 years. Who, before Trump, was seriously talking about immigration reform other than vague lipservice about maybe securing the border one day and pushing amnesty? Now that Trump has laid out serious and real immigration reform every candidate is forced to take a stand.

So it doesn't matter if Trump is trolling us or not, the effect he is having is real.


Link to the real and serious reform proposals he has laid out?

So far he's just spouting vague phrases tailored to appeal to mouthbreathers. He hasn't actually produced anything of any specificity or detail.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/ ... ion-reform
^The single best immigration plan I've seen in a long, long time.
In announcing his decision to run for President on Tuesday, Trump said he would call “the head of Ford, who I know” and tell him: “Let me give you the bad news: every car, every truck and every part manufactured in this plant that comes across the border, we’re going to charge you a $35 tax—OK?—and that tax is going to be paid simultaneously with the transaction.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaesteve ... der-nafta/

Trump has been very vocal about opposing the current trade deals. As it is, 9/10 times I feel like the calls for Trump to be specific is just trolling. Seriously, what candidate has laid out anything highly specific at this point? Name 3 specific policy proposals form Rubio, Jeb!, Cruz, Hillary, Graham, Christie, Kaisch, Pataki, etc. All I hear from anyone at this point is a bunch of meaningless slogans and vague talk of "American exceptionalism."


So Trump wants to ignore the theory behind opportunity costs, increase the cost of making US cars, and thus ruin the US auto industry by hurting their competitiveness globally while making them less affordable at home.

Good job Trump.


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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby Thor » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:42 am

Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:
Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:Donald Trump is the best thing to happen in American politics since the Buchanan Brigade. Trump, all by himself, is shifting the Overton Window in the U.S. rightward like no other right wing figure has in at least the last 30 or 40 years. Who, before Trump, was seriously talking about immigration reform other than vague lipservice about maybe securing the border one day and pushing amnesty? Now that Trump has laid out serious and real immigration reform every candidate is forced to take a stand.

So it doesn't matter if Trump is trolling us or not, the effect he is having is real.


Link to the real and serious reform proposals he has laid out?

So far he's just spouting vague phrases tailored to appeal to mouthbreathers. He hasn't actually produced anything of any specificity or detail.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/ ... ion-reform
^The single best immigration plan I've seen in a long, long time.
In announcing his decision to run for President on Tuesday, Trump said he would call “the head of Ford, who I know” and tell him: “Let me give you the bad news: every car, every truck and every part manufactured in this plant that comes across the border, we’re going to charge you a $35 tax—OK?—and that tax is going to be paid simultaneously with the transaction.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaesteve ... der-nafta/

Trump has been very vocal about opposing the current trade deals. As it is, 9/10 times I feel like the calls for Trump to be specific is just trolling. Seriously, what candidate has laid out anything highly specific at this point? Name 3 specific policy proposals form Rubio, Jeb!, Cruz, Hillary, Graham, Christie, Kaisch, Pataki, etc. All I hear from anyone at this point is a bunch of meaningless slogans and vague talk of "American exceptionalism."


Well...that pretty much makes my point. Basically, Trump is preying on small minded people suffering from irrational xenophobia and racism by beating the fear and loathing drums. Make people afraid of "the Other". Divide people against their neighbors. Foment mistrust and hate. Its a tactic as old as it gets.

That's not an immigration plan...its basically a long-winded post from Stormfront. A wall? Seriously? L-)

Stormfront? Give me a break. You have to got the spigot off somewhere. America can't afford to be a dumping ground for the rest of the world's problems indefinitely. I work in the immigration system so I see it every single day, it is broken.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.
-William Ernest Henley
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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby Thor » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:50 am

Kane wrote:
Thor wrote:
Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:Donald Trump is the best thing to happen in American politics since the Buchanan Brigade. Trump, all by himself, is shifting the Overton Window in the U.S. rightward like no other right wing figure has in at least the last 30 or 40 years. Who, before Trump, was seriously talking about immigration reform other than vague lipservice about maybe securing the border one day and pushing amnesty? Now that Trump has laid out serious and real immigration reform every candidate is forced to take a stand.

So it doesn't matter if Trump is trolling us or not, the effect he is having is real.


Link to the real and serious reform proposals he has laid out?

So far he's just spouting vague phrases tailored to appeal to mouthbreathers. He hasn't actually produced anything of any specificity or detail.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/ ... ion-reform
^The single best immigration plan I've seen in a long, long time.
In announcing his decision to run for President on Tuesday, Trump said he would call “the head of Ford, who I know” and tell him: “Let me give you the bad news: every car, every truck and every part manufactured in this plant that comes across the border, we’re going to charge you a $35 tax—OK?—and that tax is going to be paid simultaneously with the transaction.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaesteve ... der-nafta/

Trump has been very vocal about opposing the current trade deals. As it is, 9/10 times I feel like the calls for Trump to be specific is just trolling. Seriously, what candidate has laid out anything highly specific at this point? Name 3 specific policy proposals form Rubio, Jeb!, Cruz, Hillary, Graham, Christie, Kaisch, Pataki, etc. All I hear from anyone at this point is a bunch of meaningless slogans and vague talk of "American exceptionalism."


So Trump wants to ignore the theory behind opportunity costs, increase the cost of making US cars, and thus ruin the US auto industry by hurting their competitiveness globally while making them less affordable at home.

Good job Trump.

As if the past 20 years of "free" trade have been good for the U.S. The current trade system in the West is a scam designed to benefit the elite and they have scammed those at the bottom into believing in it. Unless you are in the top 1-2% buying into the "free" trade scam makes you a chump. Please tell me how we benefit from the current trade regime. We are weaker, poorer, and have higher unemployment rates and an out of control trade deficit since NAFTA was signed into law. This is corporate trade and those at the top are the only ones who benefit. The rest of us were sold a bill of goods. Meanwhile we allow an unlimited number of hordes to stampede across the southern border and compete with Americans for the last remaining jobs.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.
-William Ernest Henley
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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby Kane » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:03 pm

Thor wrote:
Kane wrote:
Thor wrote:
Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:Donald Trump is the best thing to happen in American politics since the Buchanan Brigade. Trump, all by himself, is shifting the Overton Window in the U.S. rightward like no other right wing figure has in at least the last 30 or 40 years. Who, before Trump, was seriously talking about immigration reform other than vague lipservice about maybe securing the border one day and pushing amnesty? Now that Trump has laid out serious and real immigration reform every candidate is forced to take a stand.

So it doesn't matter if Trump is trolling us or not, the effect he is having is real.


Link to the real and serious reform proposals he has laid out?

So far he's just spouting vague phrases tailored to appeal to mouthbreathers. He hasn't actually produced anything of any specificity or detail.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/ ... ion-reform
^The single best immigration plan I've seen in a long, long time.
In announcing his decision to run for President on Tuesday, Trump said he would call “the head of Ford, who I know” and tell him: “Let me give you the bad news: every car, every truck and every part manufactured in this plant that comes across the border, we’re going to charge you a $35 tax—OK?—and that tax is going to be paid simultaneously with the transaction.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaesteve ... der-nafta/

Trump has been very vocal about opposing the current trade deals. As it is, 9/10 times I feel like the calls for Trump to be specific is just trolling. Seriously, what candidate has laid out anything highly specific at this point? Name 3 specific policy proposals form Rubio, Jeb!, Cruz, Hillary, Graham, Christie, Kaisch, Pataki, etc. All I hear from anyone at this point is a bunch of meaningless slogans and vague talk of "American exceptionalism."


So Trump wants to ignore the theory behind opportunity costs, increase the cost of making US cars, and thus ruin the US auto industry by hurting their competitiveness globally while making them less affordable at home.

Good job Trump.

As if the past 20 years of "free" trade have been good for the U.S. The current trade system in the West is a scam designed to benefit the elite and they have scammed those at the bottom into believing in it. Unless you are in the top 1-2% buying into the "free" trade scam makes you a chump. Please tell me how we benefit from the current trade regime. We are weaker, poorer, and have higher unemployment rates and an out of control trade deficit since NAFTA was signed into law. This is corporate trade and those at the top are the only ones who benefit. The rest of us were sold a bill of goods. Meanwhile we allow an unlimited number of hordes to stampede across the southern border and compete with Americans for the last remaining jobs.


...they're competing for jobs of manuall labor. Jobs that are now going unfilled because most Americans won't work that type of job at those low wages (mexican day laborers do it only because they know it and because it's better than home).

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/15/migratio ... rtage.html
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby Spider » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:56 pm

Thor wrote:
Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:
Spider wrote:
Thor wrote:Donald Trump is the best thing to happen in American politics since the Buchanan Brigade. Trump, all by himself, is shifting the Overton Window in the U.S. rightward like no other right wing figure has in at least the last 30 or 40 years. Who, before Trump, was seriously talking about immigration reform other than vague lipservice about maybe securing the border one day and pushing amnesty? Now that Trump has laid out serious and real immigration reform every candidate is forced to take a stand.

So it doesn't matter if Trump is trolling us or not, the effect he is having is real.


Link to the real and serious reform proposals he has laid out?

So far he's just spouting vague phrases tailored to appeal to mouthbreathers. He hasn't actually produced anything of any specificity or detail.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/ ... ion-reform
^The single best immigration plan I've seen in a long, long time.
In announcing his decision to run for President on Tuesday, Trump said he would call “the head of Ford, who I know” and tell him: “Let me give you the bad news: every car, every truck and every part manufactured in this plant that comes across the border, we’re going to charge you a $35 tax—OK?—and that tax is going to be paid simultaneously with the transaction.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaesteve ... der-nafta/

Trump has been very vocal about opposing the current trade deals. As it is, 9/10 times I feel like the calls for Trump to be specific is just trolling. Seriously, what candidate has laid out anything highly specific at this point? Name 3 specific policy proposals form Rubio, Jeb!, Cruz, Hillary, Graham, Christie, Kaisch, Pataki, etc. All I hear from anyone at this point is a bunch of meaningless slogans and vague talk of "American exceptionalism."


Well...that pretty much makes my point. Basically, Trump is preying on small minded people suffering from irrational xenophobia and racism by beating the fear and loathing drums. Make people afraid of "the Other". Divide people against their neighbors. Foment mistrust and hate. Its a tactic as old as it gets.

That's not an immigration plan...its basically a long-winded post from Stormfront. A wall? Seriously? L-)

Stormfront? Give me a break. You have to got the spigot off somewhere. America can't afford to be a dumping ground for the rest of the world's problems indefinitely. I work in the immigration system so I see it every single day, it is broken.


Sure you do.

Anyways....something to bear in mind is that white Americans fertility rate is now at record lows. Might even be negative by now. Without our baby crazy immigrants, we'd be looking at a nasty demography issue and future economic contraction. Look at Japan. Its expected to have a population crash by as many as 30-40 million people in coming decades...and with very little immigration coming in, there is no stopgap. Germany might be worse off, at least in terms of the fertility of native Germans...but Germany is rapidly accepting immigrants to prop themselves up.

The US is a consumption economy. We need to keep the population rising, and frankly, considering the landmass and resources we can bring to bear, we've got great potential for it. We aren't constricted like Germany and Japan.
Ernest Shackleton: "Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success."

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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby Thor » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:17 pm

Spider wrote:Sure you do.

Anyways....something to bear in mind is that white Americans fertility rate is now at record lows. Might even be negative by now. Without our baby crazy immigrants, we'd be looking at a nasty demography issue and future economic contraction. Look at Japan. Its expected to have a population crash by as many as 30-40 million people in coming decades...and with very little immigration coming in, there is no stopgap. Germany might be worse off, at least in terms of the fertility of native Germans...but Germany is rapidly accepting immigrants to prop themselves up.

The US is a consumption economy. We need to keep the population rising, and frankly, considering the landmass and resources we can bring to bear, we've got great potential for it. We aren't constricted like Germany and Japan.

:)) I've worked in immigration now for over 5 years, but you are free to believe what you wish. Until you see the mess up close you can't comprehend how broken it is.

A fundamental problem with the United States as currently constituted is that it is set up as a "consumption economy." The U.S., and most of the the world, count on unchecked growth forever and ever to maintain prosperity. Nonstop growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. It is not sustainable and cannot go on forever. Sure we have a lot of natural land but we should conserve at least some of it if no other reason then for the sake of natural beauty itself. We could rape our entire continent of all her natural resources, but to what end? It will never be enough because we will still need to continue to grow in order to maintain the illusion. Where will it end? No one asks these questions because no one cares or they're benefiting with wealth untold from the current house of cards we've propped up for ourselves.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.
-William Ernest Henley
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Re: Is Trump a Democratic "wolf" in Republican clothing?

Postby John Galt » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:23 pm

i agree with what George Will proposed about the debates. allow all to join, so long as they agree to support the candidate who wins, to support the Republican party and the Republican candidate, to not run their own spoiler campaign. the only one who is questionable on this is trump, because yeah, he's not really a republican. he's a nativist, or at least, abusing populist nativism
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
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