The Biggest Criminal Enterprise in History

[The Dharma Bum]

[Mr.Bill]

[NAB]

[Indy]

I think there is some truth to the notion that both sides are to blame here. Even for all the Koch brothers' millions spent on distorting reality, the reality is that Americans won't do anything they don't have to.

Whoever brought up the 90s was right-on as an example of our gluttony. You would think that after the oil crisis (which is how foreign, smaller cars broke into the market here) that nobody in their right mind would go back to huge, gas-guzzling vehicles yet there they were--everywhere. Even more retarded: in urban neighborhoods like mine--really? You need that tank of a vehicle for city driving?

Then you would think that after gas shot up past $4/gallon people would still learn, now that they all ditched their SUVs. But no.

We are the most ultra-liberal society on the planet--the textbook definition of "If it feels good, keep doing it. Don't worry about the consequences down the road."

The TPM and plutocratic hacks like Limbaugh have managed to convince their drooling followers that any attempt at conservation or cleaning up the planet--because that's what we're talking about, cleaning up the planet we live on--is some sort of international leftist conspiracy to (I'm not making this up) drain America's wealth into third world African nations.

But that still doesn't account for all the Democrats/indies/moderates that engage in the same gluttonous behavior, if not the ideology.

Basically this generation has decided that the planet is theirs to use and exhaust and future generations will just have to live in the mess that we've created.

Not very brotherly. I can't think of a more universally unassailable cause then cleaning up the planet--I mean, we LIVE here--yet inexplicably you've got half the country that believes this is some form of "socialism" and "freedom" means choking on whatever filth people like the Koch brothers want to put in their air or water.

[Spider]

^If you want environmental restoration to happen...find some way to make it profitable. Make if "feel good", as you put it, Indy.

Idealism doesn't solve anything. Find a pragmatic solution. Don't scream and wave your hands around, preaching extremes and demanding "justice" or whatever. Find a middle path that the mainstream can handle, and let both lunatic fringes foam at the mouth in the corner.

Its not an ideologically pure approach...but if there is profit to be made planting trees..then people will scheme, plot, backstab, and run themselves into the ground trying to plant trees.

Without that motivation...they won't bother. At least not on a meaningful scale.

[The Dharma Bum]

You can't just magically make cleaning up a devastated environment profitable. That's not a real answer, it's naked idealism.

[The Dharma Bum]

[Spider]

[The Comrade]

you would have to simultaneously make destroying the environment unprofitable to make that plan work.

[The Dharma Bum]