We're so f*cked

The place for general political discussion.

It's been a year, did Trump Co work with the Russians?

Yes - I read fake news
5
83%
No - I am a Trumpbot and lack any critical thinking skills
1
17%
 
Total votes : 6

Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Saz » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:32 pm

NAB wrote:
Saz wrote:
Kane wrote:
Saz wrote:
ToddStarnes wrote:Much worse things could certainly be coming. I agree that's more concerning than Donald, who so far appears to be the obnoxious senile old guy at a family reunion - annoying, but not especially harmful.

Could come from the left or the right too. Obama derangement syndrome finally destroyed the ability of American conservatives to think rationally. Trump seems to be doing the same with the left. Americans have lost it. I'm eyeing the exit myself if things don't calm down.


I left when Obama did, writing was on the wall. Unfortunately I stumbled into a shitty situation...guess I'll try Singapore and hope third time is the charm.

DJT has CTE


Singapore? Where there's no such thing as political freedom?

:))


That's a feature not a bug. I want a competent, stable, low tax and efficient government. Not one run by proles determined to run a great society into the ground.


They are pretty racist in Singapore, so keep that in mind when choosing your utopia.

Singaporians (whatever they call themselves) are also pretty arrogant and self-absorbed, so that might offset their rampant racism for you.


Lmao I don't give a shit about that bro, I'm not some shitlib. Azn chicks love me and I don't care what the rest think. Most azns are only racist until you take out your wallet, far superior to the OBAMA IS A MUSLIM rednecks you deal with in America. Been to sing half a dozen times no where near as bad as china or korea.

Really can't wait to date some high maitinance sing chick who's father hates me. She will never get fat and I will have a whole family to troll for the rest of my life :))
Pun intended for the plebes on here who don't get a joke
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Saz » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:38 pm

Kane wrote:
Saz wrote:
Kane wrote:
Saz wrote:
ToddStarnes wrote:Much worse things could certainly be coming. I agree that's more concerning than Donald, who so far appears to be the obnoxious senile old guy at a family reunion - annoying, but not especially harmful.

Could come from the left or the right too. Obama derangement syndrome finally destroyed the ability of American conservatives to think rationally. Trump seems to be doing the same with the left. Americans have lost it. I'm eyeing the exit myself if things don't calm down.


I left when Obama did, writing was on the wall. Unfortunately I stumbled into a shitty situation...guess I'll try Singapore and hope third time is the charm.

DJT has CTE


Singapore? Where there's no such thing as political freedom?

:))


That's a feature not a bug. I want a competent, stable, low tax and efficient government. Not one run by proles determined to run a great society into the ground.


http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/29/the ... aboratory/

Have fun.


All of London is covered in CCTV, omnipresent mass surveillance has been an obvious reality for any major metro for a decade now. If only someone would actually watch those cameras and so something about the homeless guy pissing on the F train...oh WAIT!

You: stuck in a crumbling society driven to depression by by your political system. Me: globe trotting renaissance man effectively engaging in international economic and political arbitrage.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Kane » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:09 am

These are the people Trump wants to keep in his orbit:

The Hill wrote:
Interior Dept. flies special flag to indicate Zinke’s presence


The Interior Department reportedly flies a special secretarial flag whenever Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke enters the agency's headquarters in downtown Washington.

The Washington Post reported that a security staffer goes to the roof and puts up the special flag when Zinke comes into the building.

When Zinke leaves or travels, the flag goes down.

The flag is a blue banner that includes the agency's bison seal, according to The Post.

If Zinke isn't there, another flag is raised for when Deputy Secretary David Bernhardt is in the building.

A spokeswoman called the ritual a "major sign of transparency."

“Ryan Zinke is proud and honored to lead the Department of the Interior, and is restoring honor and tradition to the department, whether it’s flying the flag when he is in garrison or restoring traditional access to public lands,” press secretary Heather Swift said in an email to The Post.


:)) :))
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Winchester » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:13 am

Yeah and to think we traded down with Gianforte.

On a side note, my son's prom date in HS was Zinke's communications director when he won our representative seat the first time. Smart, smart young lady but holy shit she is a true believing republican.
Last edited by Winchester on Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Kane » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:17 am

Winchester wrote:Yeah and to think we traded down with Gianforte.


Hey, he's no Roy Moore. You guys at least have 'bama beat.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Kane » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:28 am

Winchester wrote:Yeah and to think we traded down with Gianforte.

On a side note, my son's prom date in HS was Zinke's communications director when he won our representative seat the first time. Smart, smart young lady but holy shit she is a true believing republican.


That's too bad - means she's probably not even trying to formulate objective observations. Smart person - hyper partisan. I'm seeing more of that every day here.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Kane » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:34 am

More evidence Trump is seeking to exit NAFTA:

Reuters wrote:
Exclusive: U.S. seeks to include steel, aluminum in NAFTA autos rules: sources

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Trump administration is seeking to use NAFTA to boost the U.S. steel and other basic materials industries by proposing stricter automotive content rules that require the use of North American-made steel, aluminum, copper and plastic resins.

Three people who were briefed on the matter said that the U.S. rules of origin proposal would put these materials on the North American Free Trade Agreement’s auto parts tracing list for the first time.

The list is used to verify the regional content level of vehicles and parts so that they can qualify for tariff-free shipment to all three countries.


Here's why that would possibly lead to US automakers outsourcing automotive construction to China:

Politico wrote:
How Trump's trade agenda would send auto jobs to China

His call for strict "rules of origin" requirements would encourage carmakers to produce outside the U.S.

During his campaign, President Donald Trump promised to bring back jobs in the U.S. automotive industry by cracking down on Chinese trade practices and renegotiating NAFTA. “We’re getting killed on trade—absolutely destroyed,” he said at one rally. But for all his rhetoric, Trump is about to make a mistake that—if adopted during the NAFTA renegotiations—could damage the U.S. automotive industry, sending thousands of American jobs to China or another low-cost country.

The policy change centers around an obscure but important aspect of trade agreements called “rules of origin.” In NAFTA, these require that a certain percentage of a car be made in the U.S., Mexico or Canada to avoid the U.S. 2.5 percent tariff. The idea is to stop companies from taking advantage of NAFTA tariff cuts by including just token North American parts. Instead companies can pay no tariff—but only if they locate a significant percentage of their production in North America, currently 62.5 percent, the highest level of any U.S. trade agreement.

Rules of origin requirements are an essential piece of any trade agreement, and encourage companies to continue producing in the U.S. But taken to an extreme, these requirements can have the opposite effect: If they attempt to force too much production to locate in North America, carmakers will choose to build cars outside the U.S. and pay the 2.5 percent tariff. And that’s exactly what the Trump administration may do.

The U.S. Trade Representative is reportedly set to propose draconian automotive rule of origin requirements for NAFTA that would dramatically increase the North American content requirement to 85 percent and introduce a U.S. origin requirement of 50 percent. The U.S. origin requirement would be unprecedented, requiring that automotive parts not just be made in a NAFTA country but in the United States, a proposal that Canadian and Mexican negotiators are likely to call a non-starter.

Most importantly, these rules-of-origin requirements would likely raise automakers’ production costs by more than 2.5 percent. That means that it will make more economic sense for companies to pay the 2.5 percent tariff and either locate their production in cheaper locales outside of North America or else reduce their use of U.S. parts in Mexican-produced cars. That’s just simple math and it’s the root problem with the Trump administration’s proposal.

Such rules of origin requirements, if adopted, would have several negative consequences for U.S. workers. First, they would eliminate the current advantage North American carmakers have over their foreign competition, which must pay the 2.5 percent tariff unless they invest in U.S., Mexican or Canadian production facilities. Japanese automakers, for instance, alone pay nearly a billion dollars a year in duties on car imports into the United States—duties that North American producers (including Japanese local investments) don’t have to pay. North American carmakers can use that extra cash to sell at lower prices or invest in future technologies and designs to ensure the continued health of the North American auto industry.

Second, without the cost savings provided by NAFTA, producing outside of North America would be more economically attractive, in which case the U.S. and other North American content would inevitably decline. Consider the example of steel produced in the United States, which is a major component of most vehicles. The top two export markets for U.S.-produced steel are Canada and Mexico, the latter of which eliminated its 35 percent tariff on these products as part of NAFTA, a real win for the U.S. steel industry and its workers. If stringent rules of origin requirements cause auto production to move outside North America to Asia and Europe, those autos will incorporate Asian and European – not U.S. – steel.

Third, the Trump proposal would eliminate an incentive for North American automakers to source parts in North America, especially the United States. Under the proposal, automakers producing in Mexico and Canada would decide to pay the 2.5 percent tariff instead of complying with rules-of-origin requirements. They will then be free to source from anywhere in the world, precisely the concern cited by Trump officials and other trade critics for making rules of origin more restrictive.

These critics have argued that tougher rules-of-origin requirements are necessary because automakers are free to buy many auto components from China and still avoid the 2.5 percent tariff; Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross recently cited a Commerce Department study indicating that the percentage of U.S. content in Mexican and Canadian automotive imports has fallen since NAFTA took effect. (That study’s methodology has been disputed by independent researchers.)

Certainly this is one reason why “rules of content” requirements exist in the first place, and should not be too relaxed. But the Trump administration’s proposal is so extreme that it would not cause automakers to invest in the U.S. or source from U.S. parts suppliers. Instead they would move more production overseas and pay the 2.5 percent tariff, or else incorporate more rather than fewer inexpensive foreign parts in their U.S.-produced models to remain competitive. While it would still make economic sense for carmakers to continue to produce some models in the U.S., without a trade incentive to produce or source in the U.S., automakers will find the economics of producing vehicles in China or buying Chinese parts more compelling. It’s hard to predict exactly how much that would hurt U.S. autoworkers but the direction is clear.

The influx of investment in the United States by foreign automakers since NAFTA went into effect is a clear illustration of how NAFTA encouraged automakers to locate more of their production in the United States. Car production in America is up more than 1 million cars today than before NAFTA and the U.S. auto industry employs over 800,000 Americans and indirectly employs millions more. Trump’s rules-of-origin requirements would put all of this at risk, making the North American automotive sector less competitive and ultimately undermining a key campaign promise.


Bruce Hirsh is principal with Tailwind Global Strategies LLC, which provides strategic advice to clients on trade and regulatory issues. He previously served as an assistant U.S. trade representative and chief international trade counsel on the Senate Finance Committee.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Winchester » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:38 am

Kane wrote:
Winchester wrote:Yeah and to think we traded down with Gianforte.

On a side note, my son's prom date in HS was Zinke's communications director when he won our representative seat the first time. Smart, smart young lady but holy shit she is a true believing republican.


That's too bad - means she's probably not even trying to formulate objective observations. Smart person - hyper partisan. I'm seeing more of that every day here.


Yeah, me too. Our county is a breeding ground for those type of people. I do like them and they are overall good people but holy shit no objectivity. Another fella that was my kids age is like that too. Smart personable young man... but jesus he actually kept a picture of Ronald Reagan in his locker while in HS, no shit.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby exploited » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:21 am

To be honest, I don't know how anyone can accept the major narratives of the modern Republican Party without being deemed stupid, considering that the entire point of the GOP is organized, deliberate stupidity on a massive scale.

You can be intelligent and conservative.

You can even vote intelligently for a Republican candidate.

But to support the actual party, overall, in this day and age? The only way an intelligent person could do that is to make the choice to shut down his or her brain, and become a receptacle for blatant idiocy. Consider the following planks of the GOP:

1. Social conservatism.
2. Fiscal conservatism in the form of tax breaks for the wealthy, low regulation, deliberate sabotage of otherwise healthy social programs, etc. No actual cuts in spending.
3. Gerrymandering, voter fraud, disenfranchisement. None of these things can rightfully be supported by an intelligent person, and yet all of these things form the basis of Republican power in the US.
4. Rejecting science and education.
5. Tough on crime, despite being the single most disproven social policy in the history of the modern world.

That is what the GOP stands for, and every single plank is deeply embedded in stupidity and ignorance.

Like I said, conservatism is fine, I know many intelligent conservatives. But to support the GOP to that extent? That indicates a high degree of stupidity, IMO. The opposite side of that coin is the Democrats who still haven't learned the appropriate lessons from Hillary Clintion's 2016 campaign.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Spider » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:25 am

Kane wrote:More evidence Trump is seeking to exit NAFTA:



It's 20th century thinking. We're not an island anymore...haven't been for a long time. He's completely out of touch.
Ernest Shackleton: "Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success."

Onward to Mars
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