IMF calls for dollar alternative

Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby spacemonkey » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:33 am

The Dharma Bum wrote:
eynon81 wrote:
Kane wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:We live in a finite world with finite resources. It is not going to be on-up forever. What can be sustained is the real prize.


Expansion to other planets.



or with proper family planning and everyone living a "lower" middle-class lifestyle we can probably keep going until the Sun Explodes.


with reasonable population levels and reasonable economic and political policies everyone can live a normal life

The first thing we need to conquer is greed/gluttony. Where is the lines between enough, excess, and absurd excess?
The hardest part of doing nothing is knowing when your done.
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Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby Medius » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:35 am

spacemonkey wrote:The first thing we need to conquer is greed/gluttony. Where is the lines between enough, excess, and absurd excess?


The trouble is never "where is the line" it is always "who sets the line".
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Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby spacemonkey » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:40 am

Medius wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:The first thing we need to conquer is greed/gluttony. Where is the lines between enough, excess, and absurd excess?


The trouble is never "where is the line" it is always "who sets the line".

I think we will find a cure for the common cold before we find a cure for greed. Today, some piles of wealth are so excessive, 90% could be removed, and they would remain excessive.
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Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby Medius » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:48 am

spacemonkey wrote:
Medius wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:The first thing we need to conquer is greed/gluttony. Where is the lines between enough, excess, and absurd excess?


The trouble is never "where is the line" it is always "who sets the line".

I think we will find a cure for the common cold before we find a cure for greed. Today, some piles of wealth are so excessive, 90% could be removed, and they would remain excessive.


True, but how many of those piles are actually outside of the economy? Meaning, how much is in giant Scrooge McDuck vaults and how much is just numbers on paper actually out in the economy fueling things?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe there is plenty of non-productive investment. There are quite a few schemes on Wall Street that are just theft with a pretty name. But there is also plenty of investment that actually turns into real production and real jobs, so that wealth isn't really being misused so badly.

General consumers aren't likely to put their money into sound future technology. There are some mechanisms that show promise, like crowd funding, but there won't be the due diligence as to the authenticity of the innovator that you would get from a company choosing to invest large sums. In short, I don't think it is black and white. I think we'd be better served by scaling back on things that are obviously idiotic in our economy first. Nix the Wall Street gambling mechanisms. Line up money and production again. Try to extricate our economy from being entirely dependent upon debt. Then see where we are at before we take more drastic steps.

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Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby spacemonkey » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:52 am

One thing is certain. If we are going to be a nation of consumers, we need to be a nation of producers also. We used to be that, but not so much any more.
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Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby Kane » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:25 pm

The Dharma Bum wrote:
Kane wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:We live in a finite world with finite resources. It is not going to be on-up forever. What can be sustained is the real prize.


Expansion to other planets.


get real


It sounds awesome and will happen in the future. You get real brah.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
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Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby Kane » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:25 pm

Medius wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:The first thing we need to conquer is greed/gluttony. Where is the lines between enough, excess, and absurd excess?


The trouble is never "where is the line" it is always "who sets the line".


If not a government, then whom?
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
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Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby The Dharma Bum » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:04 pm

Kane wrote:
The Dharma Bum wrote:
Kane wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:We live in a finite world with finite resources. It is not going to be on-up forever. What can be sustained is the real prize.


Expansion to other planets.


get real


It sounds awesome and will happen in the future. You get real brah.

yes indeed I agree it sounds awesome, but...

we are nowhere near being technically able to colonize other planets, not to mention there is no way we can reach an earth-like planet. colonizing a lifeless rock such as mars with a couple of hundred people is completely useless in this regard. we could probably do the mars thing within a hundred years or so but to what end? by that time it will be way too late.

this is something to say in support of business as usual, despite the tremendous social, political and environmental damage caused by our current mode of production and out of control consumption.

we need to reprioritize stat
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Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby Medius » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:17 pm

Kane wrote:
Medius wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:The first thing we need to conquer is greed/gluttony. Where is the lines between enough, excess, and absurd excess?


The trouble is never "where is the line" it is always "who sets the line".


If not a government, then whom?


Nobody. At least as far as I've ever seen. Once a person can set the line, their power is such that they really don't give a crap about those they are setting a line for in the first place.
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Re: IMF calls for dollar alternative

Postby Kane » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:33 pm

Medius wrote:
Kane wrote:
Medius wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:The first thing we need to conquer is greed/gluttony. Where is the lines between enough, excess, and absurd excess?


The trouble is never "where is the line" it is always "who sets the line".


If not a government, then whom?


Nobody. At least as far as I've ever seen. Once a person can set the line, their power is such that they really don't give a crap about those they are setting a line for in the first place.


...then you offer no feasible alternative aside from chaos.
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