Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

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Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby Spider » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:42 pm

IN 1993, CONSTRUCTION workers building a new freeway in San Diego made a fantastic discovery. A backhoe operator scraped up a fossil, and scientists soon unearthed a full collection of bones, teeth, and tusks from a mastodon. It was a valuable find: hordes of fossils, impeccably preserved. The last of the mastodons—a slightly smaller cousin of the woolly mammoth—died out some 11,000 years ago.

But the dig site turned out to be even more revelatory—and now, with a paper in the journal Nature—controversial. See, this site wasn’t just catnip for the paleontologists, the diggers who study all fossils. It soon had archaeologists swooping in to study a number of stone tools scattered around the bones, evidence of human activity. After years of debate over the dating technology used on the mastodon, a group of researchers now believes that they can date it and the human tools to 130,000 years ago—more than 100,000 years earlier than the earliest humans are supposed to have made it to North America.

~~~~~

Finally, the group tried a newer method called uranium-thorium dating, which measures how quickly naturally occurring uranium in bones decays to its daughter isotope of thorium. “Both techniques—uranium and luminescence—are widely used,” said Paces, another author on the Nature paper. “Sometimes one will work better than the other depending on the environment.” Uranium-thorium won out. The mastodon bones had held on to enough thorium that the researchers could finally placed the bones to 131,000 years ago, plus or minus 9,000 years.

~~~~~

Alistair Pike, an archaeologist at the University of Southamton (UK) and dating expert, thinks additional finds of early human activity in North America will back up the paper’s conclusions. “It is rare that archaeology adopts a single instance of dating as a benchmark, and the smoking gun usually comes from a second, third, or fourth instance of something similar,” Pike writes in an e-mail to WIRED. “I doubt that these individuals butchered just one mastodon ever, so this is our cue to go look for more.”

More mastodon bones with chisel marks would be good, but 130,000-year-old human fossils would be better. Thomas Demere, curator of paleontology at the San Diego Museum of Natural History, and an author on the new paper, excavated the original site 25 years ago. He notes that there are additional bone beds protected by a freeway sound berm. The answer to this mystery might just lie under a San Diego neighborhood.


https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v544/n7651/full/nature22065.html
https://www.wired.com/2017/04/130000-year-old-mastodon-threatens-upend-human-history/

Just thought I'd leave this here. Pretty cool. Tough to buy into, as it rewrites the anthropological record to the order of 100,000+ years, but hey. Could always be the starving, technologically backslid descendants of Galactica crew.
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Re: Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby John Galt » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:45 pm

Very recently was some evidence pushing it back from 14k to 24k years before present http://nouvelles.umontreal.ca/en/articl ... n-thought/

100k years before present seems like a huge leap considering it was 65k years before present when modern humans are estimated to have left Africa. Homo erectus maybe though, but still seems unlikely because of temperature; I don't think there was a land bridge then but i am not sure
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Re: Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby The Comrade » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:57 pm

i'm gonna say no until there is 100% conclusive evidence. the likelihood of a hominid making it out of africa and to the americas that early without any evidence prior is just so unlikely.
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Re: Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby spacemonkey » Mon May 01, 2017 11:45 am

I bet the pyramids and some buildings in S.America are way older then what they think.
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Re: Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby The Comrade » Mon May 01, 2017 11:55 am

Nope
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Re: Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby John Galt » Mon May 01, 2017 1:25 pm

The Comrade wrote:i'm gonna say no until there is 100% conclusive evidence. the likelihood of a hominid making it out of africa and to the americas that early without any evidence prior is just so unlikely.


i knew a young-earth creationist. we'd argue about this shit all the time in college, mostly because he was having doubts about it (turned out, he's a flaming homosexual) so i humored him. but my favorite thing was "what about the kangaroos." are you telling me that all 65 species of macropods (kanagroos, wallabies, et) went two by two from the middle of persia or some shit down to australia and not one of them went anywhere else? none of them left any evidence of this journey? Why don't we see the belly tracks tracks of the three toed sloth as it crawled from asia, over the land bridge to north america, past the glaciers, and south into the jungles of south america where it has a symbiotic relationship with algae that lives on its fur

these things leave evidence. not only do you need to establish evidence of habitation in america, you also need to establish evidence of the migration so I agree it's extremely unlikely
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Re: Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby Spider » Mon May 01, 2017 2:29 pm

Extremely unlikely, but the uranium-thorium dating method seems extremely legit. What explanations could there be for that?
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Re: Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby spacemonkey » Tue May 02, 2017 11:32 am

Wonder why todays primitive tribes aren't constructing massive monuments the way we said they did in the past?
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Re: Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby spacemonkey » Tue May 02, 2017 11:33 am

The Comrade wrote:Nope

Flat earther, lol.
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Re: Humans in North America 130,000 years ago?

Postby John Galt » Tue May 02, 2017 12:45 pm

spacemonkey wrote:Wonder why todays primitive tribes aren't constructing massive monuments the way we said they did in the past?


mesoamerican society was highly advanced. they almost all lacked knowledge of iron though (it was just starting) and that, together, with a lack of draft animals (which is also why they didn't have the immunities that euopeans did), made them easy pickings for europeans, but this does not mean they were not advanced. they had large cities, agriculture, writing, etc. they were disturbingly savage (their human sacrifice is unrivaled), but this is very different than some small tribe of a few hundred living in the amazon not building a giant temple for human sacrifices

we killed almost every last one of these people, accidentally. just by interacting with them, we set created a chain reaction that depopulated north and south america. it's not like there was only a few thousand of them in the woods making pyramids back in the day, there will millions and millions of them.
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