Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby spacemonkey » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:47 am

Greed and gluttony are the biggest obstacles to communism, capitalism, and pretty much every other "ism" out there. Oh wait, don't forget corruption.
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Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby Motown » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:54 pm

spacemonkey wrote:Greed and gluttony are the biggest obstacles to communism, capitalism, and pretty much every other "ism" out there. Oh wait, don't forget corruption.


You're green. OK, cool.
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Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby Dylan » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:56 pm

Motown wrote: I think Rand was a bitter little charlatan.

:)) we could replace thousands of pages of tripe written on Atlas Shrugged with just that accurate succinct description.
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Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby The Comrade » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:30 pm

i wish the first page of that book had that written in it. would have saved me from reading 800 more.
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Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby exploited » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:10 pm

I went into reading Atlas Shrugged with negative expectations, and I knew it would effect my judgment, but it wasn't really prepared for how bad it was. I guess I assumed that it must have some redeeming qualities because it had a fairly large impact.
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Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby Philly » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:18 pm

It's a cult classic, but look at the people who are cultish about it.
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Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby Homer » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:14 am

Motown wrote:
ndz wrote:The question isn't whether Communist societies can exist; they did for millenia prior to the Neolithic revolution. The question is whether advanced Communist societies can exist. I believe they can and inevitably will occur; just that we won't see them for at least another century. The goal right now is to advance technology to the point where scarcity no longer exists as a meaningful limitation (socialism). Once that is done, the notion of money, labor, private property, and statism will evaporate.

Objectivism is so obviously defective as a political theory that it fails in principle alone. Simply apply the test of universality to it. If everyone looked out for their own self-interest and didn't care about others' welfare, then people who were incapable of looking out for their own welfare due to disability or social conditions would simply die. This is obviously immoral, so the system fails.


I agree with you about Objectivism, I think Rand was a bitter little charlatan. What I don't understand is why you think technology will eventually eliminate scarcity or why you think elimination of scarcity will lead to Communism.


Well I'm not a communist, it sounds a bit too utopian for me to regard it as a viable option, but I guess with regards to scarcity:

Home 3D printing and increased mechanisation could one day eliminate scarcity, or reduce it to a point where capitalism becomes unworkable.
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Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby The Comrade » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:51 am

verticle farming is going to annihilate food scarcity. no more regional growing places, no more outrageous costs due to transportation and regional monopolies. every region will be able to grow shitloads of literally any crop, with increased yields, year round, with fewer resources.
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Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby Motown » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:21 am

Dylan wrote:
Motown wrote: I think Rand was a bitter little charlatan.

:)) we could replace thousands of pages of tripe written on Atlas Shrugged with just that accurate succinct description.


I read that book because some friends of mine wouldn't stop talking about it and thought I'd really like it. They asked me what I thought when I was finished and I told them I thought Rand was autistic, not the answer they were looking for. I don't see how anyone can read that book and not believe Rand was a monster.
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Re: Ayn Rand Objectivsm v. Karl Marx Communiusm

Postby lnrw » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:01 am

Homer wrote:
Motown wrote:
ndz wrote:The question isn't whether Communist societies can exist; they did for millenia prior to the Neolithic revolution. The question is whether advanced Communist societies can exist. I believe they can and inevitably will occur; just that we won't see them for at least another century. The goal right now is to advance technology to the point where scarcity no longer exists as a meaningful limitation (socialism). Once that is done, the notion of money, labor, private property, and statism will evaporate.

Objectivism is so obviously defective as a political theory that it fails in principle alone. Simply apply the test of universality to it. If everyone looked out for their own self-interest and didn't care about others' welfare, then people who were incapable of looking out for their own welfare due to disability or social conditions would simply die. This is obviously immoral, so the system fails.


I agree with you about Objectivism, I think Rand was a bitter little charlatan. What I don't understand is why you think technology will eventually eliminate scarcity or why you think elimination of scarcity will lead to Communism.


Well I'm not a communist, it sounds a bit too utopian for me to regard it as a viable option, but I guess with regards to scarcity:

Home 3D printing and increased mechanisation could one day eliminate scarcity, or reduce it to a point where capitalism becomes unworkable.


how would increased mechanisation or elimination of scarcity cause capitalism to be unworkable?
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