Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Postby Nolidor » Wed May 07, 2014 8:36 am

One of the main issues I've seen growing among liberalism is a refusal to appreciate categorically objective reason. That is liberalism is supposed to be an ideology that cares about who people are as individuals on the inside that counts, and making sure they're universally treated with equality. Conservatism, in contrast, engages in inductive reasoning to stereotype people, and expects people to fit traditional norms which in reality just satisfy the emotions of the powerful.

However, something strange has been happening lately. More and more liberals are behaving like anti-intellectual conservatives by denying objective morality. You see this especially from the indulgence of mass media, pop-culture consumerism that tends to mock "hipsters". What I find most ironic about this is despite how liberals supposedly clamor for cultural reinvigoration against anti-intellectual conservatism, these liberals are behaving anti-intellectually in the exact same way.

Another thing is many conservatives are hypocrites in claiming liberals are lazy bums who aren't willing to apply themselves to become successful. This is despite how liberals work smart through creative thinking, and conservatives engage in office politics, but lately, many liberals have been becoming lazy bums themselves while accusing conservatives of being "hard-asses" or anyone who isn't a lazy bum of being a conservative "hard-ass".

On the other hand, there's a very strange movement by feminists and multiculturalists against white male liberals as well which is remarkably similar to conservatism. Many conservatives seek to identify those in society who are weak, sensitive, thin-skinned, exposed, and vulnerable, and then just bully them around and call them lazy unless they're willing to satisfy work ethic. The problem is these feminist and multiculturalist "egalitarian" liberals are doing the same thing to white males. You usually see this when discussing equal opportunity in academia or the workplace. They identify people in society who were supposedly privileged (when they're really not because they don't share the same anti-intellectual attitudes of those who were prejudiced, so prejudice doesn't get redistributed to them). In turn, they get abused and neglected, and told to endure rugged individualism after the fact.

It's a very bizarre situation, but it would seem that liberalism has been subverted by conservatism.
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Re: Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Postby Philly » Wed May 07, 2014 9:42 am

What's happening is you began with a bunch of false premises and now you're realizing they're all bullshit.
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Re: Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Postby Nolidor » Wed May 07, 2014 10:55 am

Eh...

...I never said liberalism is entirely wrong. All I said is that in practice, many liberals seem to be betraying their principles and turning out to be conservatives instead. It's like they advocated some principles to fit in, but when the chips were down, they revealed who they really were.

That doesn't mean liberalism is wrong or that all liberals do that though.
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Re: Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Postby Philly » Wed May 07, 2014 11:08 am

But your premises are incorrect. Making fun of hipsters is a betrayal of liberal principles? The. You talk about working hard or being lazy like either liberalism or conservatism is opposed to work ethic. It's all nonsense. You are observing that reality doesn't fit your perceptions but rather than accepting that your perceptions were wrong you assume things are changing.
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Re: Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Postby eynon81 » Wed May 07, 2014 11:12 am

John Dean believed that true American Conservatives had to be liberals.

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Re: Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Postby Nolidor » Wed May 07, 2014 4:16 pm

Philly2 wrote:But your premises are incorrect. Making fun of hipsters is a betrayal of liberal principles? The. You talk about working hard or being lazy like either liberalism or conservatism is opposed to work ethic. It's all nonsense. You are observing that reality doesn't fit your perceptions but rather than accepting that your perceptions were wrong you assume things are changing.


Conservatives believe in work ethic because they're anti-intellectually stuck in their ways. They believe in particular ways of getting things done, and if you don't do things their way, then it doesn't count. Sometimes, this involves being hard working, and if you refuse to struggle, you get called lazy. It's not always about being hard-working though. It's just about conforming to norms. Hard work can be one form of conformity.

Liberals are openminded to creative thinking to analyze alternate ways to get things done. They don't simply learn from experience, and they think before they act.

The problem is many liberals are betraying this openminded attitude by picking on those who are cultured while appealing to mass media, pop culture consumerism. That is they believe people are supposed to be motivated to work from dumb and typical forms of consumption, and that people are supposed to work to make dumb and typical forms of consumption.
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Re: Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Postby eynon81 » Thu May 08, 2014 7:25 am

Nolidor wrote:
Philly2 wrote:But your premises are incorrect. Making fun of hipsters is a betrayal of liberal principles? The. You talk about working hard or being lazy like either liberalism or conservatism is opposed to work ethic. It's all nonsense. You are observing that reality doesn't fit your perceptions but rather than accepting that your perceptions were wrong you assume things are changing.


Conservatives believe in work ethic because they're anti-intellectually stuck in their ways. They believe in particular ways of getting things done, and if you don't do things their way, then it doesn't count. Sometimes, this involves being hard working, and if you refuse to struggle, you get called lazy. It's not always about being hard-working though. It's just about conforming to norms. Hard work can be one form of conformity.

Liberals are openminded to creative thinking to analyze alternate ways to get things done. They don't simply learn from experience, and they think before they act.

The problem is many liberals are betraying this openminded attitude by picking on those who are cultured while appealing to mass media, pop culture consumerism. That is they believe people are supposed to be motivated to work from dumb and typical forms of consumption, and that people are supposed to work to make dumb and typical forms of consumption.


Hipsterism is largely based on pop culture consumerism and typical forms of consumption. It's why they are picked on.
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Re: Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Postby Gremlin » Thu May 15, 2014 7:09 pm

The majority of self proclaimed "liberals" are practicing Solipsist (often unknowingly) with an authoritarian perspective (often knowingly) supporting and empowering the kleptocrat classes. In reality, 21st century "liberalism" has the historical attention span "squirrel!!!!!!". It isnt a surprise to many that most of them can literally be told anything from "experts" and proven crooks and liars more commonly referred to as politicians. Even the ones willing to admit how crooked said system/kleptocrat is today, will refer to it/their statements to the legitimacy of tomorrows dream while vehemently stating it as reality. Sure nothing new is said there (ie: A young Hitler debates with workers in Mein Kampf) but the modern steel curtain is a population trained from birth to behave like crabs trapped in a bucket that eases the load of the social and economic engineers steaming forward.


Truthfully, at the most basic level, what is "liberal"? Max freedom, max liberty for the maximum number of people regardless of the current state or social order. What is conservative? Preservation of the status quo, violently if necessary and/or growth of the state to preserve the social order. So i can sympathize with the confusion. Both have always claimed principles to varying degrees of a philosophy emphasizing natural law and transcendent moral order. The reality? Throw on a couple hundred years of increasing decadence, philosophical perversion, and moral rot, natural law is silly talk and moral order is what the authorities (strong men) say it is. This country is only a step or two away from the President putting on a wedding dress and taking a horse to the alter trotted out by the experts as a historical milestone of social evolution. **==
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Re: Has Liberalism Been Subverted By Conservatism?

Postby Saz » Thu May 15, 2014 7:34 pm

On the other hand, there's a very strange movement by feminists and multiculturalists against white male liberals as well which is remarkably similar to conservatism. Many conservatives seek to identify those in society who are weak, sensitive, thin-skinned, exposed, and vulnerable, and then just bully them around and call them lazy unless they're willing to satisfy work ethic. The problem is these feminist and multiculturalist "egalitarian" liberals are doing the same thing to white males. You usually see this when discussing equal opportunity in academia or the workplace. They identify people in society who were supposedly privileged (when they're really not because they don't share the same anti-intellectual attitudes of those who were prejudiced, so prejudice doesn't get redistributed to them). In turn, they get abused and neglected, and told to endure rugged individualism after the fact.


As a liberal, I cannot wait for all the racists, smokers, homophobes, and white males to be put on trains to the camps where.... well I won't give away the whole plan yet.
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