On Anti-Intellectual Conservative "Reflexive" Thought

Re: On Anti-Intellectual Conservative "Reflexive" Thought

Postby Philly » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:52 am

The confusion comes because "the left" is a blend of liberal and socialist ideas. The right is a blend of liberal and traditionalist ideas. It's why we're a liberal society. Both of our main ideologies draw from liberalism.
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Re: On Anti-Intellectual Conservative "Reflexive" Thought

Postby Professor » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:00 am

Do you mean "liberal" as in the classic sense, as it was circa 1776? If so, then I think I know what you mean.
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Re: On Anti-Intellectual Conservative "Reflexive" Thought

Postby Philly » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:44 am

Liberalism as a general idea, not as a buzzword in American politics. Liberalism is about a free society. Like when a country is called a "liberal democracy", that doesn't necessarily mean leftist, it means there are basic protections of individual rights.
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Re: On Anti-Intellectual Conservative "Reflexive" Thought

Postby Professor » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:28 am

Philly2 wrote:Liberalism as a general idea, not as a buzzword in American politics. Liberalism is about a free society. Like when a country is called a "liberal democracy", that doesn't necessarily mean leftist, it means there are basic protections of individual rights.


Gotcha. Kind of how, when our country was formed, it was very "progressive" but not at all "socialist". But, today, both those terms are associated (even if loosely associated) with the left/democrats/etc.
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Re: On Anti-Intellectual Conservative "Reflexive" Thought

Postby Philly » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:52 am

Professor wrote:
Philly2 wrote:Liberalism as a general idea, not as a buzzword in American politics. Liberalism is about a free society. Like when a country is called a "liberal democracy", that doesn't necessarily mean leftist, it means there are basic protections of individual rights.


Gotcha. Kind of how, when our country was formed, it was very "progressive" but not at all "socialist". But, today, both those terms are associated (even if loosely associated) with the left/democrats/etc.

Was it? As far as I know progressivism as an idea and a movement began after the civil war.
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Re: On Anti-Intellectual Conservative "Reflexive" Thought

Postby Professor » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:15 pm

Philly2 wrote:
Professor wrote:
Philly2 wrote:Liberalism as a general idea, not as a buzzword in American politics. Liberalism is about a free society. Like when a country is called a "liberal democracy", that doesn't necessarily mean leftist, it means there are basic protections of individual rights.


Gotcha. Kind of how, when our country was formed, it was very "progressive" but not at all "socialist". But, today, both those terms are associated (even if loosely associated) with the left/democrats/etc.

Was it? As far as I know progressivism as an idea and a movement began after the civil war.


Progressive, in the sense that everyone else at the time was a monarchy or something else (similar).
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Re: On Anti-Intellectual Conservative "Reflexive" Thought

Postby Philly » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:17 pm

I guess in retrospect we'd call that a progressive step but I don't think they referred to it as such at the time.
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Re: On Anti-Intellectual Conservative "Reflexive" Thought

Postby Nolidor » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:21 pm

Professor wrote:I reject your definition of conservatism.

The best definition* of conservatism is that one persons rights extend to where another's begins.

*Definition = overarching rule. There are exceptions, but this is true in a broad sense.


Sorry, but I've never seen that.

Conservatism is an anti-intellectual, stuck in its ways ideology that's obsessed with conserving the status quo. The notion of "rights" doesn't exist to a conservative. The only thing that exists is power politics and being obsessed with those who are born into power being entitled to bully everyone else around.

In families, this means parents can treat children like garbage.

In church, this means popular families can treat unpopular families like garbage.

In business, this means popular workers can treat unpopular workers like garbage while sucking up to managers.

In school, this means popular students can treat unpopular students like garbage.

A liberal society doesn't obsess with popularity in contrast. Instead, it involves individuals coming together and standing up for who they are on the inside that counts instead of being externalized into paranoia. A liberal society doesn't care if people like each other or not. It still expects people to treat each other with respect.

That said, some conservatives have been subverting liberalism through "equality". Treating people with respect for who they are as individuals on the inside that counts acknowledges that people deserve to be treated equally.

However, some conservatives are abusive anti-intellectuals who insist on telling those who apply themselves to become successful that they're obligated to share credit in the name of equality. They furthermore claim "work ethic" as an excuse to say those who aren't willing to apply themselves after others need help are lazy.

If those who apply themselves don't continue, then they abuse them and blame the victim, saying the victim wasn't willing to compromise or that the victim should be willing to endure abuse because the victim wasn't totally destroyed, so it was OK for the conservative to drag another down to one's anti-intellectual level.

I guess you could say a conservative is someone who confuses abstract with concrete equality. Instead, a conservative is someone who experiences concrete facts, synthesizes one's emotions with those facts as an excuse to dictate one's opinion, and tries to accumulate popularity through folk community to do so. A conservative is someone who refuses to think about caring for who people are as individuals on the inside that counts.
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