meaning of life

Re: meaning of life

Postby Darkhorse » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:31 pm

The Dharma Bum wrote:
exploited wrote::))

Classic Darkhorse.


Yes, makes misinformed comment based on an assumption that is not accurate.

Will never understand point


So, you're taking the position that he isn't a huge twat?
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Re: meaning of life

Postby The Dharma Bum » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:13 pm

Professor wrote:Read the first part, and it's hogwash, so not reading the rest.

Most things in this universe, if left alone, simply decay and disintegrate. Biological systems, instead, appear from nowhere, then organize themselves, then even grow!


False. Subatomic particles formed themselves into atoms (protons and electrons, among others). These atoms formed molecules, namely, hydrogen. Hydrogen clumped together to form starts. Stars, through their natural progression of life, went on to form more complex molecules and elements. Those elements formed more stars, and planets. These stars and planets formed solar systems. Solar systems formed galaxies. Galaxies formed galactic clusters. Then, back on the planets (at least one of them), other molecules formed complex structures like water, methane, etc. Those molecules formed organic compounds. Organic compounds formed life.

None of this is "decay" or "disintegration".


You obviously don't understand the point, nor are you qualified to state it is hogwash. Entropy is a fact, and life is literally a chemical reaction that releases stored energy in service to this force. This paper is basically an anthology of current scientific understanding, source material is listed at bottom, so if you do not agree with it you are disagreeing with mainstream scientific thought on the many issues brought forward by the paper and that is basically all there is to that.

I think if you actually finished the paper you will be interested to find that he literally compares life to the phenomena you just named, as both are high order self-organizations and a manifestation of the same universal forces at work.

Life is simply a chemical reaction caused by the physical characteristics of the universe that is occurring on the surface of this planet. Given the ubiquity of the factors that cause the chemical reaction it is reasonable to assume this phenomena has emerged to assist in the degradation of energy differentials everywhere that matter and energy exist in space. In other words life is likely a common effect.

If you think this concept is in anyway a metaphysical thesis you simply don't understand what you are reading. The chemical reaction that is occurring on this planet exists purely to degrade energy differentials according to the "laws" of physical universe and has no more philosophical significance than the Coriolis effect making water spin in a particular direction down your drain does.

Consciousness is simply a more efficient way to degrade energy differentials and eventually reach universal equilibrium ie "heat death of the universe" than non-consciousness is, so it happens. This is exactly like all other natural phenomena. So not only are humans not special. Life itself is not a "miracle". We are basically an elaborate heatsink.

That is all.
Last edited by The Dharma Bum on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: meaning of life

Postby Professor » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:30 pm

Sorry - perhaps you're right, Dharma. I don't spend much time thinking about things like that.
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Re: meaning of life

Postby The Dharma Bum » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:14 pm

Well, it's interesting because it resolves the conundrum of how self organizing systems can emerge.
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Re: meaning of life

Postby exploited » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:26 pm

I am about half-way through it, been reading on and off throughout the day.

I can't remember exactly what, but I recall a few things here and there that struck me as weird or wrong, but the most of what I've read so far was kind of cool and raised some really interesting questions.

Once I'm finished I'll post what I think. I always love reading crazy shit about consciousness.
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Re: meaning of life

Postby Kane » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:19 am

Dude sounds pretty f**k awesome but his shit is too much for me. I salute his love of music, that's extremely admirable.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
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Re: meaning of life

Postby The Dharma Bum » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:04 am

I was just thinking about what we know about the process that causes a particular morphology to develop.

Several examples of parallel evolution are documented. I think this may mean the humaniform morphology may an inevitable development of matter as the physical forces utilize their properties as a natural process to degrade energy differentials. Space, matter and energy "seek" a state of equilibrium. Life is seeming the opposite of equilibrium, but we now understand that ecology is actually process wherein the effect of the physical forces is reacting to matter, energy, and space and moving toward the state of equilibrium. Life is basically a chemical process that actually serves to find and remove stored energy in matter.

That old sci-fi cliche everyone laughs about that portrays earth-humans populating the universe may not be so far fetched after all, when these factors are considered. It may simply be a common morphological mode, similar to how crystallization process probably happens every where the right conditions and materials exist for the reaction to be initiated.

Perhaps what we view as unique features of the human species arise everywhere the the conditions require it. Epigenetics influence morphology, but clearly there are a lot of other forces at work there too. This is why the examples of parallel evolution that we know about happened. Completely unrelated genome can certainly produce nearly identical morphology and ecological role.

I think it would freak me out to meet a human being that wasn't actually...human, but just something very similar. lol
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Re: meaning of life

Postby The Dharma Bum » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:12 am

Kane wrote:Dude sounds pretty f**k awesome but his shit is too much for me. I salute his love of music, that's extremely admirable.


The music stuff is what led me to the site.

This is awesome:
http://www.scaruffi.com/vol1/beatles.html#x
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