The Sad Puppies

The Sad Puppies

Postby John Galt » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:35 am

this shit right pisses me off

so some butt-hurt author complained that he didn't win a hugo and has decided that it is ideological bias as to why he didn't win. it made him a "sad puppy".

you see, he's a mormon that doesn't like gays. NO, his name is NOT Orson Scott Card, winner of several Hugos

Two years ago Larry Correia started a campaign to get himself nominated for a Hugo, not through writing superior writing but by doing it through numbers. you see, the Hugo is for fans who can write in nominations. anyone who is a member of The World Science Fiction Society, which costs $50 annually, can nominate.

now perhaps Correia has a point, in that some people's preferences are what shine though. me? i like great writing. there's so much libertarianism in scifi, so much that has been nominated and won the hugos i really don't see where he's coming from with this shit. that he's a mormon and he didn't win? so what, Card is a mormon too. ah, he replied, that was "Then" and this is "Now". perhaps there are some people who are ideologically driven, but there was no campaign of ideologically driving nominations. they all offset each other until just the ones about good writing trickle to the top

not this year. this year the Sad Puppies got their way to the top of the list. most of the hugos are controlled by what they voted for. Correia declined all his nominations but he recommended a bunch of other authors that made their way to the top, probably by people that hadn't even read the damn stories. Vox Day, who thinks women shouldn't be able to vote, got nominated twice for best editor (Vox Day is the psyedonym for Thomas Beale, who is from, of all places, Minnesota). he's the lead editor for Castalia House, which got most of the nominations this year because Castalia House is a bunch of right wing sci fi authors. also note Vox Day led the Rabid Puppies this year, who had similar goals in mind, but are even more extreme than the sad puppies. should just be "whiny bitches"

there's a bunch of articles on this, like here: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... tions.html

i'm fine with right wing scifi. i like right wing scifi. in fact i find it much more interesting that left-wing scifi, and much more believable. and while Iain Banks received a nomination over his long career of making a bunch of scifi novels, he never won one. he's perhaps the preeminent left wing space operaist. he didn't win because he made the only book i actually stopped reading part way through it was so horribly written and edited ("Consider Phelbas" was the worst book I have ever read).
there's lots of libertarian books that have won. just because you didn't win doesn't mean there is a conspiracy.

there is a conspiracy now though. the hugos are are in control of the highest bidder. Correia and Day released lists of what you, their devoted zealots, should vote for with their $50 membership.

sad puppies indeed

what i don't like about it is a campaign to control the lists entirely. last year, they got nominees into categories. that's fine. but this year having like all of one guy's short stories be all that's nominated for best short story is detrimental to the award.

rules should be changed. 1 nomination per category per person for one thing. secondly, perhaps, there can be more nominees per category: having 10 nominees for best novel would then prevent this kind of thing from happening. also run offs. although i don't know if they do that
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 11887
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 557 times
Been thanked: 1229 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: The Sad Puppies

Postby Winchester » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:34 pm

Weird. No time to read up on the "controversy" for a few days. I will say I've read everything Mr Correia has written and like it quite a bit. I even actually bought/still have his first book Monster Hunter Inc in the self-published version before his stuff went mainstream. He was pimping his work at a gun forum I used to frequent.
User avatar
Winchester
Governor
 
Posts: 5351
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:07 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 704 times
Been thanked: 769 times

Re: The Sad Puppies

Postby John Galt » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Winchester wrote:Weird. No time to read up on the "controversy" for a few days. I will say I've read everything Mr Correia has written and like it quite a bit. I even actually bought/still have his first book Monster Hunter Inc in the self-published version before his stuff went mainstream. He was pimping his work at a gun forum I used to frequent.


yeah he's a pulp writer. he's been taken in by the idea that a cabal of people have controlled the hugos for the promotion of one ideology at the detriment of others.

now, he helms this cabal

it's unforutenate for him to be thrown in with the likes of Vox Day but he is. he doesn't repudiate him and Sad and Rabid Puppies helped each other own the ballots
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 11887
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 557 times
Been thanked: 1229 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: The Sad Puppies

Postby Tejada » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:07 pm

This sounds pretty awful. Did a quick google search to learn more about the Hugo Awards and saw that the Sad Puppy group/club/circle-jerk or whatever called upon members of #Gamergate to pitch into their efforts. That's enough information for me to condemn them. Gamergate folks are whiny pissbaby HQ in the twittersphere, to rival the SJW crowd.
I have never been mad online.
User avatar
Tejada
Mayor
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:16 pm
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 308 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: The Sad Puppies

Postby John Galt » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:21 am

Tejada wrote:This sounds pretty awful. Did a quick google search to learn more about the Hugo Awards and saw that the Sad Puppy group/club/circle-jerk or whatever called upon members of #Gamergate to pitch into their efforts. That's enough information for me to condemn them. Gamergate folks are whiny pissbaby HQ in the twittersphere, to rival the SJW crowd.


gamersgate... look, that some f**k idiot made "death threats" is not enough to condemn the entirety of people who have legit gripes about how the game journalism industry works. i really don't think the gaming industry itself or gamers are these sexist monsters like some claim. just because someone doesn't want to play a god awful game like DepressionQuest doesn't mean that women are bad game makers. that just means one game maker who happens to be a woman (and sleeping with a game reviewer) makes shitty games.

ceo of collasal order is a woman. lead designer of their most successful game, cities: skylines is a woman. i really like that game made by a woman. if everyone was against that game? then you'd have a case for sexism. but they're not. no one cares what sex someone who develops a game is. they care about the games

the thing i don't like about the Sad Puppies is taking over the entire list so that you can only choose the best of what one group -- they became the very cabal that they raged against -- decided should be on the list. i think some simple changes can be made that would help in the future but the damage is done this year
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 11887
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 557 times
Been thanked: 1229 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: The Sad Puppies

Postby Tejada » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:57 pm

Galt wrote:gamersgate... look, that some f**k idiot made "death threats" is not enough to condemn the entirety of people who have legit gripes about how the game journalism industry works. i really don't think the gaming industry itself or gamers are these sexist monsters like some claim. just because someone doesn't want to play a god awful game like DepressionQuest doesn't mean that women are bad game makers. that just means one game maker who happens to be a woman (and sleeping with a game reviewer) makes shitty games.


There is no way you followed the #gamergate on twitter during the height of that episode or you wouldn't be trying to refute me on them being scummers.

No, I do not subscribe to any blanket statement condemning "gamers" or the industry that supplies them. What I'm saying is there were thousands of #gamergate warriors blowing up twitter with their hissy fits making some of the most vile statements about women I've read on the interweb and yes I'm aware how bold of a statement that is. You can choose to not believe me but I'm telling you it wasn't a few bad apples but the majority of the bunch crossing into pathological levels of misogyny. They were the perfect enemy and counterpart of the shrillest members of the SJW camp that live and breath to squeal "misogyny!" at any action a cis white male commits. I understand agreeing with gamergate on their grievances but how the group conducted themselves was unsupportable for anyone with a shred of respect for women.

Your thoughts on Sad Puppies: agreed. The mechanics you suggested in your OP sound like they would eliminate this kind of scheme entirely. I'd say something has to change if the organizers want the Hugo Awards to retain any integrity at all.
I have never been mad online.
User avatar
Tejada
Mayor
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:16 pm
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 308 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: The Sad Puppies

Postby Spider » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:53 am

Haven't read any of his stuff. Is his religious baggage heavily punctuating his work? In the case of Card I had no idea he was a Mormon until randomly learning it years later. Didn't much care.
Every dark cloud has a silver lining. But lightning kills hundreds of people each year who are trying to find it.
User avatar
Spider
VIP
VIP
 
Posts: 11250
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Out in the sticks.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 832 times
Been thanked: 1003 times
Political Leaning: Anarcho Communist

Re: The Sad Puppies

Postby Winchester » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:18 am

Spider wrote:Haven't read any of his stuff. Is his religious baggage heavily punctuating his work? In the case of Card I had no idea he was a Mormon until randomly learning it years later. Didn't much care.


No religious baggage in his books. The guy is basically a libertarian gun fanatic which does heavily punctuate his work... entertainingly.
User avatar
Winchester
Governor
 
Posts: 5351
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:07 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 704 times
Been thanked: 769 times

Re: The Sad Puppies

Postby Spider » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:41 pm

Winchester wrote:
Spider wrote:Haven't read any of his stuff. Is his religious baggage heavily punctuating his work? In the case of Card I had no idea he was a Mormon until randomly learning it years later. Didn't much care.


No religious baggage in his books. The guy is basically a libertarian gun fanatic which does heavily punctuate his work... entertainingly.


That just sounds awesome. If he isn't using the book to pontificate, when who cares?

If he's spreading hate/ignorance outside his writings and people have just decided to punish him for it...I've got no problem with that whatsoever.
Every dark cloud has a silver lining. But lightning kills hundreds of people each year who are trying to find it.
User avatar
Spider
VIP
VIP
 
Posts: 11250
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Out in the sticks.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 832 times
Been thanked: 1003 times
Political Leaning: Anarcho Communist

Re: The Sad Puppies

Postby NAB » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:04 pm

Winchester wrote:
Spider wrote:Haven't read any of his stuff. Is his religious baggage heavily punctuating his work? In the case of Card I had no idea he was a Mormon until randomly learning it years later. Didn't much care.


No religious baggage in his books. The guy is basically a libertarian gun fanatic which does heavily punctuate his work... entertainingly.


I made the mistake of reading some book of his where the "liberals" created a hostile takeover or some such and we have a Right v Left civil war. It was such a piece of garbage book I can't believe the same guy wrote it. Forget the name because it was so bad.

Edit: it's called Empire. Terribad book
Welcome to our speak board web page
User avatar
NAB
Governor
 
Posts: 7390
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:27 am
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 1046 times

Next

Return to Society

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron