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Plutonomy and the Precariat: On the History of the U.S.... • Page 3 • Society • Political Crossfire Forums

Plutonomy and the Precariat: On the History of the U.S....

Re: Plutonomy and the Precariat: On the History of the U.S..

Postby exploited » Wed May 08, 2013 4:57 pm

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Re: Plutonomy and the Precariat: On the History of the U.S..

Postby The Dharma Bum » Thu May 09, 2013 12:02 pm

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Re: Plutonomy and the Precariat: On the History of the U.S..

Postby Spider » Sat May 11, 2013 4:18 pm

Thing is that even if you nail successful people to a wall and take their wealth from them, it doesn't amount to enough to pay everyone a "living wage". There just aren't enough wealthy people to clean out. And once you've used them up and sent them to a gulag camp or whatever....then what?

Jobs exist because they have to meet a demand for labor. Some labor is more in demand relative to supply than other varieties, and is thus worth more. If you start creating artificial jobs just because everyone is required to have one, you oversupply the labor and devalue it. Then you just wind up paying $100 for labor that actually only produces $75 worth of actual economic value, for no reason other than because some government piece of paper says the job has to exist.

Its that pointless work for pointless pay problem the Soviets had. People have to have jobs so lets build a thousand tractors that nobody wants or needs. Or maybe set people to work digging holes and filling them in. Whatever! Everyone gets a job! Then, later on, a bread line, because paying $100 for $75 has debased the money to the point that....why the hell bother?

Jobs have to stem from a demand, not an artificial supply. We can get government involved in trying to regulate when companies are allowed to hire and fire, like France, but we'd have to either back off when said companies started getting forced out of business, or put them on welfare. France does all of this, and still has a 11% unemployment rate to show for it.

Can't make something come from nothing, no matter how hard you try.
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Re: Plutonomy and the Precariat: On the History of the U.S..

Postby The Dharma Bum » Sat May 11, 2013 6:39 pm

Don't confuse the two main distribution philosophies to date, which are state capitalism and soviet style centrally planned state socialism, and what I am trying to impart. There is a third philosophy, a system of participatory economics and an attendant political system of participatory democracy.

That is, a system predicated on the needs of the people, planned by the people for the benefit of the people. Everyone will work for the good of the community and everyone is rewarded fairly in return, with all they produce, by the community. It's the basis for a truly functional system where both the public good and individual needs are maximized instead of a dysfunctional one that is basically a get rich quick scheme for a favored class that imposes wage slavery on society and neglects the basic human needs of its stakeholders.

Most of what people think of as the "economy" in state capitalism is unproductive rent seeking behavior. Private property is totally unnecessary to human survival and the only reason most people engage in it is because they have no other means by which to support themselves, other than to resort to the worst, wage labor. You have to be plugged into the capitalist system to have any kind of decent life so you have to buy a house and invest in other forms of private property to support yourself. In this order a producer/consumer dynamic takes the place of an actual social structure, in exchange for the lions share of what is produced for the very top elite. If you refuse to participate, for whatever reason, you will simply end up on the side of the road like human detritus or end up in prison as a criminal.

State capitalism in it's current iteration not really a system as much as it's a deliberate lack of a system for most of society. I'm simply proposing a humane, progressive alternative. We have to have a humane society (no pun intended ;P) or there is no reason for people to participate. Which is the situation when alternative subcultures start to emerge. These subcultures supply vital social needs that the state or private sector are failing to provide for many segments of society. This is common social behavior in all of Western Civilization, no?

I mean do you have a better explanation for why Juggalos exist? lol It's clearly due to social neglect. In the 20th century people used to think some segments of society were defective, and the problem was genetic and the solution we came up with was eugenics, we all know how that ended up. Well brute force didn't work, so in the 21st century we know we need a humane alternative is required if maximum human potential is to be realized.

After all that is the very basis of progressive social thought, is it not?
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