New Mysteries on Pluto

Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby The Comrade » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:19 pm

John Galt wrote:
The Comrade wrote:not sure if making a joke or if you thought i really meant 10.

and on that topic, i find the need to "clear the neighborhood" to be a bullshit criteria. it essentially puts a proximity limit on planetary classification. if earth was as far out as pluto, earth wouldn't be a planet either, which is stupid.


yes its a joke and yes, i tend to agree. still, we can't call everything that orbits the sun a "planet". but if its basically spherical instead of weirdly shaped... yeah. im fine with that being a planet


yep. hell, i'd even be fine if it was an arbitrary determination based on diameter. but the fact that actual planets, if they were found past neptune (like the probable planet x), couldn't be classified as planets is just nonsensical. i have a feeling that definition is going to get thrown out eventually.
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Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby Medius » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:31 pm

John Galt wrote:
Medius wrote:
The Comrade wrote:charon is a moon so no.

http://www.space.com/28284-planet-x-wor ... pluto.html

there's some really interesting anomalies going on, at the moment, show objects waaaaay past pluto being influenced by something that appears to be gravity. the only thing that could be doing that is a planetary body or a mass relay.


Charon and Pluto are more realistically binary dwarf planets. They orbit each other.

As for the unexplained gravity, that's God's pad. It generates some serious gravity. The roads are paved in gold, the atmosphere is pure bling, and it has a core of molten bitches.


while it is true the center of where the two orbit each other is outside of pluto, slightly, unlike earth-moon where the center of orbiting each other is inside of the earth, the center of orbit between jupiter and the sun is outside of the sun


I take your point, but the difference between a planet and a star is pretty clear. The difference between a planet and a moon is less clear and has to do with orbital behavior. For instance, if you were to take Ganymede and fling it around the sun rather than Jupiter, it would be a planet, no questions. So whether Charon primarily orbits Pluto or the sun makes the difference on whether it is a moon or a planet.
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Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby Medius » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:36 pm

The Comrade wrote:
Medius wrote:
The Comrade wrote:charon is a moon so no.

http://www.space.com/28284-planet-x-wor ... pluto.html

there's some really interesting anomalies going on, at the moment, show objects waaaaay past pluto being influenced by something that appears to be gravity. the only thing that could be doing that is a planetary body or a mass relay.


Charon and Pluto are more realistically binary dwarf planets. They orbit each other.

As for the unexplained gravity, that's God's pad. It generates some serious gravity. The roads are paved in gold, the atmosphere is pure bling, and it has a core of molten bitches.


orbiting a barycenter doesn't make something a binary system. they orbit a common point, yes, but pluto's slight wobble isn't anything like charon's actual orbit. otherwise, because the barycenter of the sun and jupiter is outside of the sun, it would make us a binary star system hybrid.

but i'm sure the IAU will make a stupid ass definition that defies logic for that case as well.


It's a bit more than "Pluto's wobble". They are tidally locked to each other and significantly orbit each other.
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Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby The Comrade » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:19 am

Medius wrote:
The Comrade wrote:
Medius wrote:
The Comrade wrote:charon is a moon so no.

http://www.space.com/28284-planet-x-wor ... pluto.html

there's some really interesting anomalies going on, at the moment, show objects waaaaay past pluto being influenced by something that appears to be gravity. the only thing that could be doing that is a planetary body or a mass relay.


Charon and Pluto are more realistically binary dwarf planets. They orbit each other.

As for the unexplained gravity, that's God's pad. It generates some serious gravity. The roads are paved in gold, the atmosphere is pure bling, and it has a core of molten bitches.


orbiting a barycenter doesn't make something a binary system. they orbit a common point, yes, but pluto's slight wobble isn't anything like charon's actual orbit. otherwise, because the barycenter of the sun and jupiter is outside of the sun, it would make us a binary star system hybrid.

but i'm sure the IAU will make a stupid ass definition that defies logic for that case as well.


It's a bit more than "Pluto's wobble". They are tidally locked to each other and significantly orbit each other.


not quite

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... other.html

as you can see from the images of the two orbiting each other pluto has a slight wobble and charon has a significant orbit.

http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/opo0519h/

and then here you can see how pluto does not even remotely orbit charon in the same degree.


also tidal locking doesn't mean anything. eventually the moon will stop pulling away from the earth and we will be mutually tidally locked. that doesn't make us a binary system.
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Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby John Galt » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:47 am

The Comrade wrote:
John Galt wrote:
The Comrade wrote:not sure if making a joke or if you thought i really meant 10.

and on that topic, i find the need to "clear the neighborhood" to be a bullshit criteria. it essentially puts a proximity limit on planetary classification. if earth was as far out as pluto, earth wouldn't be a planet either, which is stupid.


yes its a joke and yes, i tend to agree. still, we can't call everything that orbits the sun a "planet". but if its basically spherical instead of weirdly shaped... yeah. im fine with that being a planet


yep. hell, i'd even be fine if it was an arbitrary determination based on diameter. but the fact that actual planets, if they were found past neptune (like the probable planet x), couldn't be classified as planets is just nonsensical. i have a feeling that definition is going to get thrown out eventually.


on the other hand they are estimating hundreds of objects within the kuniper belt are 'dwarf planets', which would make the acronym too long to remember all the names.

i don't like the idea that orbits outside the ecliptic which is just a few degrees of orbital inclination should do with it either, simply because other systems could have all their planets orbiting well beyond one planets inclination for all we know

diameter could have something to do with it but i think mass is a better definition. pluto has 0.178 moons worth of mass and radius of 1185km. eris is 0.23 moons, with a radius of 1163km. these numbers do not bode well for calling pluto a planet again though. i suppose with size you could just arbitrarily say it would be 1000km radius or greater == planet. this leaves ceres out (450km diameter) but sedna has numbers between 950 and 1060 as the diameter, so maybe. of course, sedna has such a massive orbit, maybe that could be used. it's aphelion is at 950AU, while when it's closest its still at 76 AU. in contrast pluto is at 29/48 AU shortest and longest from sun. maybe if the orbit is within 100AU? of course what you really want is planet x which could go beyond that...

im sure the people who came up with this new definition had all these discussions
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Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby Spider » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:09 am

I don't think its much to do with arbitrary measurements of specific objects....more a matter of establishing classes of objects. Regardless of size or orbit, being a big half dirt clod, half snowball, Pluto has a lot more in common with all the other Kuiper belt objects than with any of the planets. Or even most of the moons. Any number of the Jovian or Saturnian moons are much more closely related to Mercury than they are to Pluto. There's some good reasoning behind these classifications. Pluto just happened to be the first big chunk we discovered out there.
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Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby NAB » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:19 am

Can't believe none of the Pluto memes have invaded this thread. Let me rectify that.

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Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby Spider » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:24 am

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Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby NAB » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:27 am

Spider wrote:Image



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Re: New Mysteries on Pluto

Postby Buster Keaton » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:10 pm

Edit: you will not sully the name of Pluto by posting here spugemaster.
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