Microsoft buying Nokia

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby Spider » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:17 pm

uebermann wrote:
eric wrote:
Didn't say it was perfect. But my iPhone sure is. Absolutely no reason for me to jailbreak it.


This is what your problem is. You think that everything you experience automatically translates to everyone. So if eric has a good day, everyone has a good day. If eric's iphone is perfect, everyone's iphone is perfect.

Apparently, you don't think "status symbol" items exist, or that, (even more plainly) that people buy Apple products as a status symbol. Because eric doesn't do it, it means it doesn't exist and no one does it.

People don't kill each other for Nike Air Jordan shoes. People don't buy fake Rolexs or knock-off Coach purses. These things don't happen because eric says this kind of thing doesn't exist. And if you have an example of it happening (and even happening en masse)? Just anecdotal!

Its also why its completely stupid for anyone to even try to debate anything with you. Eric is always right because what eric experiences is what everyone experiences, and if they don't experience what eric does, they are wrong.

Talk about anecdotal. And self-centered.



For my own part I've never been able to wrap my brain around the concept of portable, inexpensive electronics as "status symbol". Status? What status? Anyone with a part time job can save up the scratch to buy a damned phone. And the most expensive stuff around generally isn't Apple branded anyways.

I get it with cars and houses and trophy wives. But a phone? Seriously? Most people in the US have a smartphone already. What status does it denote beyond "conformist".
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby eric » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:06 am

Spider wrote:
eric wrote:Idk how it's not integrated. You turn it on, it works 100% exactly like any other right click on any computer.


No, it doesn't. The most glaring omission is the inability to drag and drop with the right button, which gives the different contextual menu. Try it. Try to move a file from one folder to another with the right button, where you have an option for move or copy. With windows its already built in, and I use it all the time. With OSX I've got to use the option key to do a copy...unless of course I'm moving something between drives in which case I have to use the option key to defeat the default copy. I much prefer the ability to simply use the other mouse button on a case by case basis when I want to move or copy something, rather than leave it up to a default that I don't want. Sure I can use keyboard shortcuts, but why not just be able to use the damned button I've already got my finger sitting on anyways?

It seems a minor problem, but its really very annoying.


Ah. I guess since I've never done that I didn't notice th lack of it.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby eric » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:14 am

uebermann wrote:
eric wrote:
Didn't say it was perfect. But my iPhone sure is. Absolutely no reason for me to jailbreak it.


This is what your problem is. You think that everything you experience automatically translates to everyone. So if eric has a good day, everyone has a good day. If eric's iphone is perfect, everyone's iphone is perfect.

Apparently, you don't think "status symbol" items exist, or that, (even more plainly) that people buy Apple products as a status symbol. Because eric doesn't do it, it means it doesn't exist and no one does it.

People don't kill each other for Nike Air Jordan shoes. People don't buy fake Rolexs or knock-off Coach purses. These things don't happen because eric says this kind of thing doesn't exist. And if you have an example of it happening (and even happening en masse)? Just anecdotal!

Its also why its completely stupid for anyone to even try to debate anything with you. Eric is always right because what eric experiences is what everyone experiences, and if they don't experience what eric does, they are wrong.

Talk about anecdotal. And self-centered.


I didn't say that doesn't happen. I said that people buy apple products for reasons other than status symbol. Since everybody can afford an iPhone these days, and they are both widely available and popular, saying that its a status symbol at this point doesn't make much sense, especially when your argument is centered around that being the only reason people buy apple products, which is nonsense.

I know you mentioned before you live out in the middle of nowhere (not that it's a big deal) but perhaps that is skewing how you perceive things. My grandma has an iPhone 5, so do my parents. People I go to school with do. Nobody is like "oh man did you see Eric has an iPhone?". So the only thing I can think of is that where you live things are perceived that way.

I will say that having an iPhone and not having a case on it can make it a status symbol.

Also, of course what I said was anecdotal, you just misunderstand the context.
Last edited by eric on Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby uebermann » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:02 am

Could be fake but someone claiming to be a former graphics designer for Nokia had this to say about Windows Phone on reddit:

Yes, I have. In fact, I did graphic design for Nokia until very recently.

The problem with WP is that visual consistency doesn't equal good usability. Usability should always trump visuals in the pecking order. Yes, WP looks consistent, but the design language and UX are riddled with flaws. I'm going to list a few.

First and foremost: there's no branching of users. Whether you're a power user, a 90-year-old granny, a toddler or a Brooklyn hipster, you get the same UX. For proper usability, the UI should bend to the needs of all user groups regardless of their skill level. If you want to implement a one-size-fits-all solution, usability is critical. WP, however, skimps on usability to maintain visual consistency, and doing that while trying to implement an OSFA solution means the result is confusing for the toddler and frustrating for the power user.

Secondly: the most used functions should be always accessible, period. When a user picks up a phone with a specific task in mind, his path to complete that task should be as optimized as possible. That's why iOS has a quick access dock as well as most Android phones. WP, again, does not to keep a consistent look. You do get live tiles, but no dock, which means that if you're using more than a handful of your phone's functions you need to scroll down, making completing critical tasks slower.

Thirdly (and this is my favorite pet peeve): the WP design language is directly opposite to Gestalt rules. The UI should use color, weight and visual cues to guide the eye and to assert a visual hierarchy. You need to be able to form an overview and the location of the most critical functions of the phone with a quick glance. This is usually done using color, continuity, contrast, focal points etc. WP disregards all of this. If you look at the live tiles, there are useless animations, complete disregard of visual cues and the focal points are all over the place. Why is the Red Bull app colored, thus stealing my attention, while the more important phone and message icons are not? Why is the Xbox Live tile green by default, making it the only one to stand out? Is the UI suggesting it's really the most vital app of my phone? Why are the tiles moving without input, making it exceptionally difficult to form an overview of what I'm seeing? Why are my eyes being constantly guided to non-essential parts of the UI? Thanks to these things, the UI is crowded and it's difficult to form a visual hierarchy of what I'm seeing. In most cases there's also no distinction between call to action elements and plain text, making guiding the user through visual cues difficult.

Fourthly: no folders. Only an alphabetical app list. For example, if you need to access multiple apps you often use together quickly, you can't have them sitting next to each other on a folder. You're forced to scroll up and down the list every time. Instead of having connected apps next to each other, you're forced to make the connections in your head, which is cumbersome and needlessly taxing, once again all because of consistency.

I'm going to save you some time and stop here. I'd have material for an average length thesis on exactly why the WP design is woefully inadequate and why it is clashing against hundreds of years of visual design theory, but let's save some time and just say it sucks with the force of a thousand suns.


Answering a few questions:

Good questions. It's 6 in the morning here, so I'll answer more thoroughly tomorrow, but briefly:

|A dock is un-necessary on WP. when you arrive at the home screen you're always scrolled to the top. So if there is a group of options you want to quickly access it's always in the exact same spot when you press the home button.

A dock is only one example. When you take into account Android's notification dropdown menu, you get a lot of quick functionality (wifi toggles, status notifications, brightness toggles etc.) which takes tens of times longer to do on a WP device. Android also has folders, so your access to app functionality is faster too.

|On your third point, I don't think its fair to condemn the OS by what third party apps do.

They're using the functionality given to them by Microsoft. They're not abusing the UI, they're doing exactly the thing Microsoft wants them to do. Microsoft is in charge of the UX and UI. The problem is in Microsoft's implementation, not with 3rd parties.

|Your eyes are drawn to whatever part of the UI you find important since you control the size of the elements.

No. Size is a weaker signal than color. If you want to do an experiment, draw a bunch of large grey balls and one small pink one and see which one stands out.

|How is a folder functionally different from creating isolated groups?

Let's put it this way. Let's take four folders from my iPad homescreen: one for my video apps, one for my audio apps, one for ebook readers etc. and one for random stuff. Each folder contains 15-20 apps. That makes 60-80 apps in total. How would you group those using WP live tiles? And that's with only four folders.


http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comment ... ?context=3
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby Kane » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:05 pm

uebermann wrote:Just so we can all come away with Eric's wisdom from this:

Microsoft doesn't make any mistakes, its all consumers' faults.

The Kinect was a wild success because eric says it is, despite no proof of anything at all other than "Because I make up some stuff about how there's homebrew stuff that make it popular."

It doesn't matter if you try something like, oh I don't know, make an OS for a phone made specifically for your company and it is pulled just 48 days of being in the market when discussing .... making an OS for a phone made specifically for your company.

There's no such thing as "brand loyalty" in the consumer world. Its all just a figment of our imagination.

Oh, and if you criticize Apple, its "All aboard the Apple hate train!"


Ueber, if eric is the cheerleader for Microsoft you are its sworn enemy until death.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby eric » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:27 pm

Mr. Ballmer argued Tuesday that Google and Apple don't have a permanent lock in the mobile business. Microsoft also is working from a position of financial strength. The company generates more than $70 billion of annual revenue, and the Nokia acquisition will barely dent Microsoft's $77 billion cash stockpile.

Mr. Ballmer said on a conference call with analysts that he believes Microsoft needs to become a hardware maker rather than making other companies responsible for computers, phones and other gear that run Microsoft software.

"For us to really fulfill the vision of what we can do for our customers, we have evolved our thinking," Mr. Ballmer said


I think basically everybody is on the same page minus a few laggards
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby PoS » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:02 am

MS is trying to be the next Apple, which creates and combines its own hardware and software but I doubt they will succeed- they lack the image, polish and the fanboy cult of Apple. Google has pretty much taken over the purely software market so I think MS's days are numbered- Balmer is grasping at straws.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby uebermann » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:30 am

So a bit more to add to this:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/terokuittin ... pensation/

According to changes implemented in 2010, Elop was entitled to immediate share price performance bonus in case of a “change of control” situation… such as selling of Nokia’s handset division. Curiously, his predecessor Kallasvuo had no such clause in his contract. This adjustment meant that unlike previous CEO’s, Elop was facing an instant, massive windfall should the following sequence happen to take place:

  • Nokia’s share price drops steeply as the company drifts close to cash flow crisis under Elop.
  • Elop sells the company’s handset unit to Microsoft MSFT -0.8% under pressure to raise cash
  • The share price rebounds sharply, though remains far below where it was when Elop joined the company.

Should this unlikely chain of events ever occur, Elop would be entitled to an accelerated, $25M payoff.

Through some strange coincidence, that very sequence of events actually did happen to take place between 2011-2013. Practically instantly after Elop was handed his contract.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby uebermann » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:43 am

So basically Elop is going to be paid $25m for tanking Nokia and getting MS to buy them out.

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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby eric » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:10 pm

PoS wrote:MS is trying to be the next Apple, which creates and combines its own hardware and software but I doubt they will succeed- they lack the image, polish and the fanboy cult of Apple. Google has pretty much taken over the purely software market so I think MS's days are numbered- Balmer is grasping at straws.


Google is following Apple's lead as well. Also, MS will be just fine.
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