Microsoft buying Nokia

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby eric » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:26 am

Nokia Kept Secrets From Microsoft

Although the pair were already working closely on Windows Phone, it's clear there are some areas that could be improved. In an interview with CNET, Joe Belfiore — the head of Windows Phone product definition and design — has revealed that Nokia kept secrets from Microsoft.

"There are real-world examples of situations where Nokia was building a phone and keeping information about it secret from us," says Belfiore. Microsoft would prioritize its own software plans, not knowing exactly what Nokia was planning on the hardware side. "And then late in the cycle we'd find out and say, 'If we had known that we would have done this other thing differently and it would have turned out better!'"


These secrets secrets and frustrations will no longer occur, and the collaboration appears to have helped Microsoft realize its priorities elsewhere. A Bluetooth file sharing feature is particular popular in developing countries, but Microsoft wasn't aware as US consumers don't typically use it. "We didn't even have that feature, and we didn't even understand or appreciate the degree to which it was critical," says Belfiore.


And if you have $77 billion in cash in the bank, it hardly seems like a bad idea to buy the hardware company that sells 80% of your software.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby fstarcstar » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:29 am

uebermann wrote:
fstarcstar wrote:Ueber, I use a phone to reply so sorry for not quoting, but your CE statement is incorrect. This is windows mobile.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile

If you click the market share in 2007 they had 42% market share, and that's the same year the iPhone came out, which caused a decline for MS handsets.


Firstly, CE, Mobile, whatever, the terms are often used interchangeably. Windows OS on a mobile phone. Any of them. I had a Motorola Q in 2006 and it was running CE, at least according to everything that was on it. Calling it Mobile is fine with me, I don't really care. It doesn't change that the OS sucked and people jumped ship when other alternatives came up - namely (as you pointed out), the iOS.


Ok, but that doesn't change the fact that you said MS has never had significant market share in mobile when they have nearly half of the mobile market under their previous OS.

Also, your wrong about Windows Phone atm. The only thing holding it back is apps. Otherwise there isn't anything you can't do on it. Also, I read your smartphone rant where you were mad about background texts yet Windows Phone has the ability to go in and change your background tasks for apps. I go right into my settings and pick the app list and hit disable background apps. Easy.


They've got over 100k apps at the moment so I'm not sure you can say that is true. Android and iOS have many more, however the bulk of those are crap that no one ever really uses.


Windows Phone passed over 150k in December of 2012, they are at nearly 200k as we speak.

And also to reiterate your point about crap.
http://www.neowin.net/news/study-claims ... s-are-dead

65% of Apples apps are also dead, so it seems we have a trend here.

The biggest obstacle to Windows Phone are carriers and sellers. I'm not kidding you when I took my girlfriend to get a windows phone to a best buy and employee asked me how to use it. He said he went through the training but didn't pay attention. This is widespread, people just don't see or use the handsets thus market share won't come until people are educated and familar.


I worked retail and I can tell you that unless you research stuff yourself, the retail people have no idea what they are talking about. I cannot tell you the number of times I've gone into Best Buy and have heard them giving the absolute worst information possible to customers. I've even had to step in a few times because I couldn't sit there and let the rep flat out lie about things. For instance, that 720 and 1080 are the same thing. Retail employees get very little training. What does happen, is the vendors will come in, give you some presents, blow smoke up your ass, and want you to learn about their product from them. HP was notorious about it back in the day with printers.

If MS can put out a good product that works and gives consumers what they want, it might work out for them. But I don't think they'll be able to do that. Again, go look up the Kin and see that they are just repeating history here.


Of course, but retail right now understands and is pushing people towards Android and iOS without giving other operating systems a chance. Despite the CEO of At&t stating that there should be multiple devices with different operating systems there hasn't been any change for that and there needs to be more competition. Its a biased world right now with these phones and Windows Phone doesn't have a chance because people simply bash it without ever using it. I show people a lot of the features this phone has and people really like it, but then they ask me if it has "Candy Crush" or "Instagram" then they lose interest immediately. Its about Apps, and we can't get apps if people don't support the platform. We forget that the iphone app store wasn't built in a day, and neither was Rome. The most innovative smartphone to this day with a stunning 41 megapixel camera and a whole horde of other features gets washed away because of biased and uneducated pricks. HELL, right now Google is preventing Microsoft from creating a legitimate Youtube App, so anyone who is buying this phone is wondering why in the hell is there no Youtube App? But does the average person know? No.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/46247 ... outube-app

Microsoft is not in the position it used to be years ago. I had someone who used a comeback to me once saying "HAHA enjoy your right click!!" as if that's somehow an insult because they use a mac. They need to build their own hardware and I don't think they will be making the same mistakes as they did before with the Zune and Kin. The only good things that came out of the Zune and Kin were many of the social features and design features of our current units. Whats hilarious is in almost a year Windows 8 just passed like 7.8% (I think) marketshare for PC's and they are above Mac OSX which as been out for like 3 years or so. MS is and can be successful in mobile and PC they just have to do things their own way. Since the DOJ isn't there to sue them over having their own browser maybe they can get shit accomplished instead of people bitching about their actions while competitors do the same.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby Spider » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:36 pm

OSX has been around for over a decade. And that stubborn refusal to properly integrate right click functionality(as opposed to the BS it is now) into OSX is nothing short of a resentful ongoing tantrum on Apple's part.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby eric » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:02 pm

Every apple osx device uses right click. You can turn it on or off. I can even right click with the trackpad on my laptop.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby Spider » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:40 pm

I'm well aware. Please re-read my post. I'm posting from a mac at this very moment, for my sins.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby eric » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:01 pm

Idk how it's not integrated. You turn it on, it works 100% exactly like any other right click on any computer.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby uebermann » Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:52 pm

fstarcstar wrote:
Ok, but that doesn't change the fact that you said MS has never had significant market share in mobile when they have nearly half of the mobile market under their previous OS.


I'll concede that point. Doesn't really matter though - it changes nothing about my argument. MS has nothing to bring to the table at this point, Nokia hardware or not. They're going to keep throwing away money at it because their staff is full of dinosaurs that can't even think about what 2 years into the future may bring. They are hell bent on trying the same thing over and over. Its dumb, but just how it is.

They might change, but I really doubt it, seeing as they bought Nokia. They'll spend a bunch of money to put out another OS and it'll flop as well. Microsoft needs a re-org and nothing short of that is going to get them back into this market. Kin? Fail. Zune? Fail. Surface RT? Fail. Everything in the communications/mobile department from them in the last 5 years has been fail. They don't have a winning track record here and doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, I believe, is the definition of insanity.

Edit: Forgot - Windows Phone? Fail.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby uebermann » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:24 pm

eric wrote:
Didn't say it was perfect. But my iPhone sure is. Absolutely no reason for me to jailbreak it.


This is what your problem is. You think that everything you experience automatically translates to everyone. So if eric has a good day, everyone has a good day. If eric's iphone is perfect, everyone's iphone is perfect.

Apparently, you don't think "status symbol" items exist, or that, (even more plainly) that people buy Apple products as a status symbol. Because eric doesn't do it, it means it doesn't exist and no one does it.

People don't kill each other for Nike Air Jordan shoes. People don't buy fake Rolexs or knock-off Coach purses. These things don't happen because eric says this kind of thing doesn't exist. And if you have an example of it happening (and even happening en masse)? Just anecdotal!

Its also why its completely stupid for anyone to even try to debate anything with you. Eric is always right because what eric experiences is what everyone experiences, and if they don't experience what eric does, they are wrong.

Talk about anecdotal. And self-centered.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby uebermann » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Here's some links and quotes to articles talking about the iPhone cool factor (which doesn't exist because eric says so!):

http://ipod.about.com/od/30dayswithipho ... 30days.htm

If you move in certain circles, hardly anything makes you cooler right now than having an iPhone. I found this out firsthand yesterday in a meeting where I had the only iPhone. When this fact became known, the start of the meeting got derailed by 5-10 minutes as I had handed the thing around and gave everyone there their chance to oogle and click.


http://live.wsj.com/video/is-iphone-los ... 2A67B155F9

Data show Apple has been losing younger iPhone users and attracting older users. WSJ's Andy Jordan examines the "Android Factor" and other reasons why the iPhone may not be "cool" anymore.


http://www.businessinsider.com/the-ipho ... ies-2013-1

Apple Inc's iconic iPhone is losing some of its lustre among Asia's well-heeled consumers in Singapore and Hong Kong, a victim of changing mobile habits and its own runaway success.
Driven by a combination of iPhone fatigue, a desire to be different and a plethora of competing devices, users are turning to other brands, notably those from Samsung Electronics Co Ltd, eating into Apple's market share.

In Singapore, Apple's products were so dominant in 2010 that more devices here ran its iOS operating system per capita than anywhere else in the world.

But StatCounter , which measures traffic collected across a network of 3 million websites, calculates that Apple's share of mobile devices in Singapore - iPad and iPhone - declined sharply last year. From a peak of 72 percent in January 2012, its share fell to 50 percent this month, while Android devices now account for 43 percent of the market, up from 20 percent in the same month last year.

In Hong Kong, devices running Apple's iOS now account for about 30 percent of the total, down from about 45 percent a year ago. Android accounts for nearly two-thirds.

"Apple is still viewed as a prestigious brand, but there are just so many other cool smartphones out there now that the competition is just much stiffer," said Tom Clayton, chief executive of Singapore-based Bubble Motion , which develops a popular regional social media app called Bubbly.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/larissafaw/ ... -to-teens/

On the sliding scale of coolness, teens place most adults firmly on the uncool side. It goes without saying that no teen wants to show up dressed identically as the science teacher.

And unfortunately for Apple, this teen logic may also apply to smartphones. They don’t want to same device as their mom, dentist, and coffee barista. They want the latest, greatest phone that speaks to their generation.


If one were to believe that these articles actually existed, it would mean that people do buy things because they are cool. But, we know that cannot possibly be true.
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Re: Microsoft buying Nokia

Postby Spider » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:13 pm

eric wrote:Idk how it's not integrated. You turn it on, it works 100% exactly like any other right click on any computer.


No, it doesn't. The most glaring omission is the inability to drag and drop with the right button, which gives the different contextual menu. Try it. Try to move a file from one folder to another with the right button, where you have an option for move or copy. With windows its already built in, and I use it all the time. With OSX I've got to use the option key to do a copy...unless of course I'm moving something between drives in which case I have to use the option key to defeat the default copy. I much prefer the ability to simply use the other mouse button on a case by case basis when I want to move or copy something, rather than leave it up to a default that I don't want. Sure I can use keyboard shortcuts, but why not just be able to use the damned button I've already got my finger sitting on anyways?

It seems a minor problem, but its really very annoying.
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