Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby Professor » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:46 am

The Dharma Bum wrote:
Professor wrote:
The Dharma Bum wrote:being sued for wrongful death and an object being illegal are not even slightly related


I said "charges". It was meant as a catchall phrase, because states have varying charges for manslaughter, murder, etc. It was meant as "charging someone for causing a death without malice or motive".


It's completely possibly that I could cause a wrongful death and be charged with manslaughter for actions taken with items that are totally legal Whats your point exactly?


It would depend upon whether an armed drone is considered like a shotgun, which has other, legitimate and legal, uses. Or is it a fully-auto assault rifle, whose propensity for illegal use outweighs any legal usage concerns.

I can't think of any real other, legal, uses that an armed drone would have except to kill/injure people.

Basically, my opinion is that non-lethal drones would be (and will be) legal. But, ones rigged for use with deadly force won't be legal for a while. Owned by private citizens, that is.
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Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby The Dharma Bum » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:50 am

It's use is obviously as a security enhancement. They are legal now. Unless you can cite a law that makes them illegal that I am not aware of.
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Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby Professor » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:52 pm

The Dharma Bum wrote:It's use is obviously as a security enhancement. They are legal now. Unless you can cite a law that makes them illegal that I am not aware of.


In most places, you are allowed to use deadly force only when you are in fear for your life. How can you be in fear for your life if you're inside your house at a computer, and the dude is outside? I guess if he had a flamethrower or something...

But, you are allowed to use non-lethal force to repel people from your property, even if you are not in personal danger.
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Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby The Dharma Bum » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:32 pm

Are you in fear for your life when the security guard you hired shoots someone breaking into your property?

Not really.

I don't see that as an issue at all, since it is allowable to use reasonable force to protect your property.

If you warn the intruder to stop with your remote loudspeaker and he refuses it, well then it just became reasonable to use deadly force to stop them.
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Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby Bauce » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:45 pm

The Dharma Bum wrote:Are you in fear for your life when the security guard you hired shoots someone breaking into your property?

Not really.

I don't see that as an issue at all, since it is allowable to use reasonable force to protect your property.

If you warn the intruder to stop with your remote loudspeaker and he refuses it, well then it just became reasonable to use deadly force to stop them.

Just for the sake of carrying out this line of reasoning...

If you hire a security guard to protect your property, that hired guard can be held responsible for his own actions. If you program/remotely control a mechanical device, not so.
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Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby The Dharma Bum » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:10 am

Bauce wrote:
The Dharma Bum wrote:Are you in fear for your life when the security guard you hired shoots someone breaking into your property?

Not really.

I don't see that as an issue at all, since it is allowable to use reasonable force to protect your property.

If you warn the intruder to stop with your remote loudspeaker and he refuses it, well then it just became reasonable to use deadly force to stop them.

Just for the sake of carrying out this line of reasoning...

If you hire a security guard to protect your property, that hired guard can be held responsible for his own actions. If you program/remotely control a mechanical device, not so.

And?

It goes without saying that if you are controlling it then you are responsible for it's actions. If your actions are lawful there is nothing to be held "responsible" for.
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Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby Bauce » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:30 am

The Dharma Bum wrote:
Bauce wrote:
The Dharma Bum wrote:Are you in fear for your life when the security guard you hired shoots someone breaking into your property?

Not really.

I don't see that as an issue at all, since it is allowable to use reasonable force to protect your property.

If you warn the intruder to stop with your remote loudspeaker and he refuses it, well then it just became reasonable to use deadly force to stop them.

Just for the sake of carrying out this line of reasoning...

If you hire a security guard to protect your property, that hired guard can be held responsible for his own actions. If you program/remotely control a mechanical device, not so.

And?

It goes without saying that if you are controlling it then you are responsible for it's actions. If your actions are lawful there is nothing to be held "responsible" for.

Well the point really being that if a guy is hired to guard your property, even though he's acting on your behalf, he still has his own person to protect in a confrontation, but if it's a machine that you're controlling, there's less leeway. The prospect of your drone being destroyed is not as compelling as the prospect of your security guard being killed.

So yes you are right that you can still use it legally, but when it's man vs machine rather than man vs man, I'm pretty sure it becomes a lot more difficult to justify the use of violence.
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Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby The Dharma Bum » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:43 am

If you demand that they leave your property and they fail to do so it is reasonable to assume they are there to do you harm and you should act accordingly.

A squadron of armed micro drones is just another layer of protection between you and those who would do you harm.

It's really no different than an electrified fence or something of that sort, except with conscious guidance. There is a notification and if the warning is not heeded then whatever consequences ensue are the responsibility of the interloper.

Of course these types of security measures are probably not appropriate for a typical residential setting. If some kid got electrocuted I'm pretty sure you would get sued and lose, for example.
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Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby Bauce » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:47 am

The Dharma Bum wrote:Of course these types of security measures are probably not appropriate for a typical residential setting. If some kid got electrocuted I'm pretty sure you would get sued and lose, for example.

Right, and if you pulled the trigger remotely and shot the kid, the ramifications would be even worse. So at what point does one get society's approval to gun people down, even on their own property, via remotely controlled machines?
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Re: Should someone be allowed to have an armed drone?

Postby The Dharma Bum » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:55 am

There is no need to get "society's approval" for armed drones because armed drones aren't illegal. That's the point that escapes you.

Now, shooting an innocent kid is obviously illegal, but that would be the case whether you used an armed drone or just walked out there and did it with a regular gun. It's silly to even interject that into the conversation.

Murder is an action that is illegal. But that is the case regardless of the nature of the murder weapon.
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